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Scottish Independence Referendum


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855 replies to this topic

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country? (53 member(s) have cast votes)

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  1. Yes (25 votes [47.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.17%

  2. No (28 votes [52.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.83%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#841 gingerjon

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Posted Today, 12:46 PM

Here's the thing Jack, I didn't get a vote on the potential breakup of my own nation.

 

England isn't breaking up.


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#842 mickhornet

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Posted Today, 12:47 PM

If its yes, are the Scots going to have a second chamber? there will be a lot of Scottish Lords looking for a nice

meal ticket.£300 a day at Westminster.



#843 Larry the Leit

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Posted Today, 12:53 PM

England isn't breaking up.


I'm British. HTH.

#844 gingerjon

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Posted Today, 12:54 PM

I'm British. HTH.

 

That's not the first word that comes to mind.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#845 Larry the Leit

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Posted Today, 12:56 PM

That's not the first word that comes to mind.


You missed me didn't you?

#846 gingerjon

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Posted Today, 12:59 PM

You missed me didn't you?

 

I was sad you took your love to town.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#847 MattSantos

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Posted Today, 01:37 PM

Some in Scotland these past few months have seemed very happy to blame any and all its perceived ills on others. Isn't that the very basis of the Yes campaign?

 

No.

The basis is so that Scotland can govern Scotland themselves.

 

Why are you so against them being independant?



#848 John Drake

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Posted Today, 01:47 PM

Aaaand, that's me out of this thread (although I did appreciate the humour in Larry's post).

 

I don't need to justify my reasons for voting to a load of people who have no clue about my beliefs, passions, plans, requirements, etc. 

 

Heaven forbid, living in a democratic society where we are allowed to vote for things that are important to us.

 

Later folks.

 

You don't need to justify your vote, and it is a secret ballot, but if you choose to make your vote public on a forum like this, you can't then take umbrage at others who might wonder why you made your choice or disagree with it. It's your choice to respond or not to any of that, but it was inevitable you'd get some kind of reaction by revealing your vote on here on such a clearly divisive issue which most of us have not been able to participate in (despite the outcome having an impact on us all).

 

I've said I'd have voted no. I'm happy to continue to argue my reasons why with those who agree and disagree.


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#849 John Drake

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Posted Today, 02:01 PM

No.

The basis is so that Scotland can govern Scotland themselves.

 

Why are you so against them being independant?

 

Hmmm, all I've heard is Alex Salmond and the SNP blaming all the bad stuff on Westminster. Even stuff which is already under the jurisdiction of the Scottish Parliament, such as the NHS. Oh, and Westminster never delivers for Scotland, apparently. With the glaring exception of Westminster delivering devolution and the Scottish Parliament in the first place.

 

And they are also inviting Scots to vote for independence without being able to offer any guarantee on what will happen to the currency or EU membership, to name but two huge and complex issues. On that basis, in my view, the nationalists haven't made a sufficiently convincing case that they can deliver much of what they are promising, and thus they resort to a bit of flag waving, Braveheart infused twaddle and complaining about bias when anyone asks them a question they can't answer.

 

Whatever the outcome of this referendum, the SNP have split Scotland pretty much down the middle. Some achievement, that.

 

I might ask in turn, why are you so against Scotland remaining a self-governing part of the United Kingdom?


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#850 Dave T

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Posted Today, 02:54 PM

You don't need to justify your vote, and it is a secret ballot, but if you choose to make your vote public on a forum like this, you can't then take umbrage at others who might wonder why you made your choice or disagree with it. It's your choice to respond or not to any of that, but it was inevitable you'd get some kind of reaction by revealing your vote on here on such a clearly divisive issue which most of us have not been able to participate in (despite the outcome having an impact on us all).

I've said I'd have voted no. I'm happy to continue to argue my reasons why with those who agree and disagree.

tbh, i havent taken unbrage, reading my post back it may have appeared that way, tbh I didnt particularly want to get too bogged down in the whole 'why didnt England get a vote' or technicalities around nations etc. i didnt ask for a vote, or campaign for one, but I participated and wouldnt have had an issue with it had I lived in England. I think thats a wider debate, and only seems to have grown legs in recent days. Its not one im massively passionate about hence me ducking out of the topic.

Ive no issue with people challenging the way I voted, im comfortable with people on here, hence doing so, but tbh, there was very little discussion about my choice, so not sure your post is that relevant. People accused me of an 'im alright Jack approach' for voting based on my beliefs and situation, i find that a strange thing to pull someone on but i can live with that. The bigger discussions were around the principle of the referendum.

So in summary, no offence taken, or dummy spit, ive enjoyed the topic, but tbh, i have a relatively busy day and then off to the pub to sample the ale and atmosphere!

#851 bearman

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Posted Today, 02:57 PM

England isn't breaking up.

Yes it is, God is nibbling away at Yorkshire. But that's ok cos as far as I can see the only good thin about Yorkshire is that it's stopping Lancashire from eroding.
However to get back on track.....
I've enjoyed reading DaveT' s contribution and fully understand that he had a very difficult decision to make.
He voted with HIS conscience and he will have to live with that.
As others have stated the only problem is that ALL of us will also be affected by things beyond our control.
Ron Banks
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#852 Martyn Sadler

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Posted Today, 03:00 PM

If I still lived in Warrington, I'd have voted No, although I'd have had to know the details obviously.

 

Plenty of people on here and elsewhere have stated quite clearly that they would take independence for their own country/city/area etc. so I don't think Scotland should feel guilty if decides to go independent.

I don't think anyone should feel guilty about voting for independence. But if Scotland does break away from the United Kingdom, I dare say the rest of us won't feel too guilty when you have to cope with the ramifications of your decision in a whole variety of ways. For example, if you lose your wallet while on holiday, I trust you won't be asking the British Embassy to help you out.

 

The thing it, though, that if Alex Salmond has his way, you will only enjoy a short period of independence before you join the EU, if the other EU countries will agree to have you.

 

No country that is a member of the EU is independent in any meaningful sense of the word, and of course that includes the UK.

 

And it's fairly debatable whether the word 'independent' has any real meaning for countries like Switzerland that sit outside the EU.

 

And I'm sure that neither you nor we will feel too guilty when the financial facts of life come home to roost.

 

But the real thing you will lose is not so much your wallet, but an open chequebook.

 

 

Last November the Treasury published figures that showed the gap between public spending in Scotland and England had widened to 20 per cent in Scotland’s favour. The average Scot now receives £1,623 more in state spending than their English neighbours - £10,152 was spent per head on public services in Scotland in the 2012/13 financial year, compared to £8,529 in England.
 
Meanwhile the national debt of £1.4 trillion (and rising) means that each of us in the UK effectively has a personal debt of £22,853 hanging around each of our necks.
 
Scotland’s share, with a population of 5.29 million, amounts to virtually £111 billion. Will any new Scottish government renege on that figure?
 
Last year Scotland ran an estimated deficit of £17 billion, spending £65.2 billion on revenue of £47.6 billion.
 
Guess who filled in the gap, while he was supposedly trying to cut the deficit for the UK as a whole!
 
The Yes campaign was based on the premise that the UK government was effectively not fit for purpose for Scotland.
 
I would suggest that the truth is that is precisely the reverse of that, and that England has far more justification for that view.


#853 Dave T

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Posted Today, 03:12 PM

I've enjoyed reading DaveT' s contribution and fully understand that he had a very difficult decision to make.
He voted with HIS conscience and he will have to live with that.
 

What???? Nobody told me that!!!!



#854 MattSantos

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Posted Today, 03:19 PM

 

I might ask in turn, why are you so against Scotland remaining a self-governing part of the United Kingdom?

 

As an Yorkshireman living in G Town, it's as simple as this;

 

Sincerely, i believe that an opportunity to run your own country is too good to pass up.

 

Whilst it wont easy for Scotland, it really wont, i see signs of a true social conscious up here and the opportunity to extend that is worth the economic risk*.

 

Furthermore, if you're not disillusioned by Westminster and at how broken the current methodology is then fair enough, but if we're better together, then why is it so ###### now?

 

My reply is a bit disjointed as i'm currently at work; in a UK owned investment bank. *risks - pah, can we really believe the messenger here? 

 



#855 Larry the Leit

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Posted Today, 03:56 PM

tbh, i havent taken unbrage, reading my post back it may have appeared that way, tbh I didnt particularly want to get too bogged down in the whole 'why didnt England get a vote' or technicalities around nations etc. i didnt ask for a vote, or campaign for one, but I participated and wouldnt have had an issue with it had I lived in England. I think thats a wider debate, and only seems to have grown legs in recent days. Its not one im massively passionate about hence me ducking out of the topic.

Ive no issue with people challenging the way I voted, im comfortable with people on here, hence doing so, but tbh, there was very little discussion about my choice, so not sure your post is that relevant. People accused me of an 'im alright Jack approach' for voting based on my beliefs and situation, i find that a strange thing to pull someone on but i can live with that. The bigger discussions were around the principle of the referendum.

So in summary, no offence taken, or dummy spit, ive enjoyed the topic, but tbh, i have a relatively busy day and then off to the pub to sample the ale and atmosphere!


Boris said heh wouldn't run for parliament.

Jack said he wouldn't post again on this topic.

Parallels.

#856 Dave T

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Posted Today, 03:59 PM

Boris said heh wouldn't run for parliament.

Jack said he wouldn't post again on this topic.

Parallels.

If your job was this boring, even you'd put up with you you lot.






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