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Scottish Independence Referendum


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Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country? (54 member(s) have cast votes)

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  1. Yes (26 votes [48.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.15%

  2. No (28 votes [51.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.85%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#961 gingerjon

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Posted Today, 06:49 AM

Perhaps I imagined it, but sure when Salmond was addressing the "Yes" campaign in his final speach this morning there was a pause and wry smile as he mentioned the significant contribution the younger vote had - I think its safe to say they didn't vote the way he expected them to when he was promoting them having a right to be involved!  ;)

 

 

And just when you think you've landed a punch the ###### wriggles away.  He'll get devo max now and still get to blame Westminster for everything.

 

Ukip calling for a federal UK now.  There is the chance of a LibDem/Ukip alliance on that as the Tory proposals are likely to be limited to just stopping outside MPs voting on English matters on Westminster.


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#962 shrek

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Posted Today, 06:56 AM

And just when you think you've landed a punch the ###### wriggles away.  He'll get devo max now and still get to blame Westminster for everything.

 

Ukip calling for a federal UK now.  There is the chance of a LibDem/Ukip alliance on that as the Tory proposals are likely to be limited to just stopping outside MPs voting on English matters on Westminster.

Oh I think he's done very well out of one seemingly inaccurate poll which brought about the last minute Westminster panic, they should have consulted with the bookies rather than the pollsters before signing pledges!

 

Roll on 2017 when perhaps we get to have a vote on staying in a far bigger and arguably far more relevant Union in the modern world!



#963 Larry the Leit

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Posted Today, 06:58 AM

I'm pleased with the result. Although I now view Dave T as somebody that needs to be charged with treason.

Edited by Larry the Leit, Today, 06:59 AM.


#964 JohnM

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Posted Today, 07:06 AM

To be fair, if they were 16 in 1979 they'd have had a vote in 1997 when they were 34 and another today when they 51. Still time for even that 70s teenager to have a couple more constitutional reform referenda.


No. They've had their chance. That's it. Will ye go...Referendum no more, bleating no more, Salmon no more, Sellers no more..West Lothian no more, Barnet no more..

#965 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted Today, 07:17 AM

Highlands - No
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#966 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted Today, 07:18 AM

Labour in a mild panic over parliament reforms?
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#967 gingerjon

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Posted Today, 07:31 AM

Oh I think he's done very well out of one seemingly inaccurate poll which brought about the last minute Westminster panic, they should have consulted with the bookies rather than the pollsters before signing pledges!

 

Roll on 2017 when perhaps we get to have a vote on staying in a far bigger and arguably far more relevant Union in the modern world!

 

I said on here ages and ages ago, before even the question was confirmed I think, that Salmond would take devo max and Cameron would take keeping the union but losing the Scottish MPs.

 

As one Lib Dem activist I just saw tweet put it: One rogue poll has achieved what decades of campaigning could not.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#968 Larry the Leit

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Posted Today, 07:32 AM

Labour in a mild panic over parliament reforms?


It has to be fair. Scotland has a population of 5M and they have devolved powers. With all the best will in the world if we are having devolution it would have to be in bite sized chunks and not England as a whole to be anything other than pointless.

#969 ckn

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Posted Today, 07:32 AM

I'm scratching my head at some of the coverage I'm seeing.  Yes, the No campaign won, Britain remains as is but many of the varied dignitaries I've seen are just gloating, suggesting Salmond is a loser who should go and that Scotland have had their day in the world's eye.  Salmond's campaign took what should have been an easy victory for retaining the status quo and ran it to the last day, getting all sorts of concessions and pledges, to call that a devastating loss is a bit wide of the mark.

 

Then there's the promises on extra powers, the number of MPs who are saying they'll vote against makes it fairly clear that there was never really intent to pass on the extra powers to Scotland.  It just looks like a used car salesman rubbing his hands in glee at getting one over on the latest idiot who bought their promises.

 

The one thing I do see is that the next general election might be interesting and have a far greater turnout as this does seem to have energised the minds of many who haven't voted.

 

A final point, those 16/17 year olds have really shown that they have a valued part in adult society.  Most of the really intelligent commentary I've seen in the last week or so has come from that group.  You can get a job, join the army, have children and so on but you can't vote in the general election.  I see this as a bit of an impetus for getting that group accepted as within the general electorate, it'd also make the transition for many from child to adult citizen a bit less blunt as they could have specific education on constitutional matters including when there are any elections to use as live case studies.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#970 gingerjon

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Posted Today, 07:36 AM

I'm scratching my head at some of the coverage I'm seeing.  Yes, the No campaign won, Britain remains as is but many of the varied dignitaries I've seen are just gloating, suggesting Salmond is a loser who should go and that Scotland have had their day in the world's eye.  Salmond's campaign took what should have been an easy victory for retaining the status quo and ran it to the last day, getting all sorts of concessions and pledges, to call that a devastating loss is a bit wide of the mark.

 

Then there's the promises on extra powers, the number of MPs who are saying they'll vote against makes it fairly clear that there was never really intent to pass on the extra powers to Scotland.  It just looks like a used car salesman rubbing his hands in glee at getting one over on the latest idiot who bought their promises.

 

The one thing I do see is that the next general election might be interesting and have a far greater turnout as this does seem to have energised the minds of many who haven't voted.

 

A final point, those 16/17 year olds have really shown that they have a valued part in adult society.  Most of the really intelligent commentary I've seen in the last week or so has come from that group.  You can get a job, join the army, have children and so on but you can't vote in the general election.  I see this as a bit of an impetus for getting that group accepted as within the general electorate, it'd also make the transition for many from child to adult citizen a bit less blunt as they could have specific education on constitutional matters including when there are any elections to use as live case studies.

 

TBH, a lot of the party political point scoring is coming across as ridiculous already.  One of the strengths of the No campaign - one which they hardly managed to exploit at all but no matter - was that they drew from three parties.  Polling has shown (and if you watch those live trackers during debates you can see this in action) people prefer their politicians to engage with each other not scream at each other.  Nobody looks good crowing.

 

I was impressed by the manner, if not the substance, of Hague earlier for much that reason.  He practically said he didn't want to hear his own party members sneering and praised the work done by Labour towards the end of the campaign.

 

More of that and people will listen more to politicians.


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#971 shrek

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Posted Today, 07:48 AM


The one thing I do see is that the next general election might be interesting and have a far greater turnout as this does seem to have energised the minds of many who haven't voted.

Agreed we'll no doubt see an upturn in turnout, just a shame we'll still be voting in a system were for many of us, our vote actually counts for very little.



#972 Phil

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Posted Today, 07:50 AM

Watch the Tories go into vengeance mode now and screw the scots down. History shows what happens to uppity celts.
"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#973 ckn

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Posted Today, 07:51 AM

Agreed we'll no doubt see an upturn in turnout, just a shame we'll still be voting in a system were for many of us, our vote actually counts for very little.

I'm hoping that increased turnouts could make even the safer seats nervous affairs.  For example, if we went from a 40% to 60% turnout then that's half again as many people voting, there aren't that many sitting MPs with a 50% lead over their opponents.  That's what's always surprised me about people who say "no point in voting as I don't like the incumbent and he's got a large majority", get enough people thinking the same way that they can change things and you never know what might happen.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#974 ckn

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Posted Today, 07:52 AM

(snip)

Please keep on topic.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#975 gingerjon

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Posted Today, 07:52 AM

No. They've had their chance. That's it. Will ye go...Referendum no more, bleating no more, Salmon no more, Sellers no more..West Lothian no more, Barnet no more..

 

You seem to forget they're called the Scottish National Party.  They won't have decided to stop believing that Scotland is a nation separate from England and should be treated like one - any more than any other group of people stops campaigning for what they believe just because one vote doesn't go their way.

 

I doubt you'll see momentum for another referendum for a very long time though.  Possibly a fortnight.


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#976 gingerjon

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Posted Today, 07:56 AM

I'm hoping that increased turnouts could make even the safer seats nervous affairs.  For example, if we went from a 40% to 60% turnout then that's half again as many people voting, there aren't that many sitting MPs with a 50% lead over their opponents.  That's what's always surprised me about people who say "no point in voting as I don't like the incumbent and he's got a large majority", get enough people thinking the same way that they can change things and you never know what might happen.

 

It's a broken system.  You and I know that Farage could whip up 25% by May and in return get, at most, half a dozen seats in parliament.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#977 Maximus Decimus

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Posted Today, 07:57 AM

Labour in a mild panic over parliament reforms?

 

I think the person who has come out worst in all this is Ed Milliband. Totally ineffective and looked nothing like a major statesman.



#978 shrek

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Posted Today, 07:58 AM

I'm hoping that increased turnouts could make even the safer seats nervous affairs.  For example, if we went from a 40% to 60% turnout then that's half again as many people voting, there aren't that many sitting MPs with a 50% lead over their opponents.  That's what's always surprised me about people who say "no point in voting as I don't like the incumbent and he's got a large majority", get enough people thinking the same way that they can change things and you never know what might happen.

Oh I keep voting and Wigan keeps returning one of the safest seats in the country and will do for ever and a day I suspect regardless of turnout!  ;)

 

Be more engaging on a wider scale if you knew your vote actually mean't something, so parties knew they couldn't shy away from voters in safe seats were they had no chance of winning the actual seat, but needed the vote as part of a wider picture.



#979 JohnM

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Posted Today, 08:02 AM

You seem to forget they're called the Scottish National Party. They won't have decided to stop believing that Scotland is a nation separate from England and should be treated like one - any more than any other group of people stops campaigning for what they believe just because one vote doesn't go their way.

I doubt you'll see momentum for another referendum for a very long time though. Possibly a fortnight.


Of course. That should be fun! Another century of whining...pity it can't be harnessed to produce energy. If it was, they'd be self sufficient!

#980 markleeds

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Posted Today, 08:04 AM

I would like to see more powers given to Yorkshire, but please do not let Leeds City Council have any of this power.




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