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42 replies to this topic

#21 pricey53

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:08 PM

Why does Phil Hudson get such a hard time off you guys on here , all his posts are to the point and most turn out to be spot on. Some people have rose coloured spectacles on where Swinton Lions are concerned .For years now it dos'nt need.me or anybody else to tell all lions fans we have been lead down the garden path so to speak.Keep your views a coming Phil.
PS ,or is it up garden path.

#22 mark richardson

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:13 PM

Why does Phil Hudson get such a hard time off you guys on here , all his posts are to the point and most turn out to be spot on. Some people have rose coloured spectacles on where Swinton Lions are concerned .For years now it dos'nt need.me or anybody else to tell all lions fans we have been lead down the garden path so to speak.Keep your views a coming Phil.
PS ,or is it up garden path.

Yeah I can't see anything wrong with asking people like Martin and Riggy who I'm pretty certain are working away for our club for free to provide some "clarity."

If you are asking for me to respect an opinion respect the right to not agree with said opinion

Edited by mark richardson, 29 November 2013 - 10:14 PM.


#23 PhillH

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 06:14 PM

Yeah I can't see anything wrong with asking people like Martin and Riggy who I'm pretty certain are working away for our club for free to provide some "clarity."

 

This statement in itself demonstrates why clarity is needed.

 

I'm not convinced Ian, Martin and others are actually "working away for (the Kidd's) club for free".  As I hope the midnight oil is actually being burned on behalf of the (still Independent) Supporters' Trust.

 

Whilst to some the difference may be a moot point, if we are on the cusp of the Trust entering into business negotiations with the Kidds the dividing line between the two organisations takes on increased importance.  The Trust committee has responsibilities to represent and protect the interests of the Trust membership.  Supporters considering providing financial support to help the Trust take the club over deserve just as good a level of scrutiny as any other private individual would insist on during the negotiation process.  Supporters' money is just as good as anyone else's money.

 

To give the maximum chance of the club surviving, an inspiring blueprint for the future of the club needs to emerge.  That blueprint needs to connect with the swathes of people who have had their trust and belief in the brand dented over the years.  I suspect playing to the ever decreasing captive audience won't be good enough, so the answer has to be bigger than that.  To rebuild that trust and have a successful mutual model of ownership, you need foundations of total openness and transparency.


Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#24 mark richardson

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 06:49 PM

So to do a Phillh and split the point and distract from the obvious............ are you suggesting that Martin and Riggy are getting paid?

 

I obviously know that is not what you mean but to me thats the whole point..youve deliberately diverted my point which was this;

 

What gives any of us,particularly you,the right to ask,nay demand,"clarity" from a volunteer who is doing more than you me or anyone else to provide information on something which they have obviously been asked to keep to themselves for now?

 

As for paragraphs three and four well surely this is all dependant on a little more patience.  Interestingly the trust sent me a letter today outlining the blueprint for the proposed board should they take over running of the club. I presume you got the same letter because its from the people you are asking for answers from? 



#25 lionsfanusa

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 08:23 PM

Whilst to some the difference may be a moot point, if we are on the cusp of the Trust entering into business negotiations with the Kidds the dividing line between the two organisations takes on increased importance.  The Trust committee has responsibilities to represent and protect the interests of the Trust membership.  Supporters considering providing financial support to help the Trust take the club over deserve just as good a level of scrutiny as any other private individual would insist on during the negotiation process.  Supporters' money is just as good as anyone else's money.


Two points: The elected officers and board of the Trust have a fiduciary duty to protect the interests of current members. There is an inference here that the Trust may not be representing the best interests of its membership. Based on? If the Trust takes over and decides to raise money, then full disclosure would be appropriate for potential investors. Until that time it is moot.
Second: negotiations on take-overs or ownership changes are almost never carried out in public. In this instance we are all lucky that the Trust is a potential party, otherwise we would know nothing, as we know nothing about other potential suitors.

As for an inspiring blueprint going forward, what's more inspiring that the real fans of this great club banding together to ensure its continued existence?
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#26 RIGGY

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 09:38 PM

Just to point out that I receive NO payment from the club or anyone else for the media work that I do for Swinton or any other club I write reports for.  I am a part time media freelance journalist.

At the moment I am working with the Trust trying to keep this great club alive and all supporters that want the same should get behind the efforts being made.



#27 Jonty

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 12:00 AM

The point that Phill is trying to make is that he believes that the goodwill of the Trust and it's volunteers is being used to do the work and put the hard yards in for "the club" (ie. The Kidds) during their time of need, when in the past the relationship has often been one of begrudged acceptance and exploitation from those same custodians. Phill is making a point that the Trust is, ultimately, accountable to it's membership and not to the Kidds.

 

There are obviously a lot of blurred edges as the Trust and the wider supporter base clearly has an emotional stake and responsibility for Swinton Lions as fans.


disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#28 marshy1

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 02:01 AM

Not really bothered what Phil thinks quite honestly.

 

This guy turned his back on the club last season and has constantly belittled the club saying nothing about the effort made by the coaching staff and players at the end of last season in keeping the club up.

 

Whatever those people who are involved from the trust do to try and make plans for the club in the event that it changes hands then they certainly are doing it out of love for 140 plus years of history which must be retained at all costs.

 

This requires the support of all the true Swinton fan base getting behind the "club"  and showing the RL, Salford Council and any potential backer that we ( the supporters) matter as much as anyone and we want a club.



#29 mark richardson

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 09:34 AM

The point that Phill is trying to make is that he believes that the goodwill of the Trust and it's volunteers is being used to do the work and put the hard yards in for "the club" (ie. The Kidds) during their time of need, when in the past the relationship has often been one of begrudged acceptance and exploitation from those same custodians. Phill is making a point that the Trust is, ultimately, accountable to it's membership and not to the Kidds.

There are obviously a lot of blurred edges as the Trust and the wider supporter base clearly has an emotional stake and responsibility for Swinton Lions as fans.

And this is something Ian Rigg quite clearly told him twice is not the case
And Jonty you rejoined the Trust I do believe in order to receive your trust updates?

#30 duffymoon

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 10:11 AM

Why does Phil Hudson get such a hard time off you guys on here , all his posts are to the point and most turn out to be spot on. Some people have rose coloured spectacles on where Swinton Lions are concerned .For years now it dos'nt need.me or anybody else to tell all lions fans we have been lead down the garden path so to speak.Keep your views a coming Phil.
PS ,or is it up garden path.

. Well said Pricey!

#31 PhillH

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

Not really bothered what Phil thinks quite honestly.

 

This guy turned his back on the club last season and has constantly belittled the club saying nothing about the effort made by the coaching staff and players at the end of last season in keeping the club up.

 

Whatever those people who are involved from the trust do to try and make plans for the club in the event that it changes hands then they certainly are doing it out of love for 140 plus years of history which must be retained at all costs.

 

This requires the support of all the true Swinton fan base getting behind the "club"  and showing the RL, Salford Council and any potential backer that we ( the supporters) matter as much as anyone and we want a club.

 

Its no secret that I found the morphing of Swinton Lions into Warrington's reserve side last season to be a step too far away from those 140 years of history (imagine my surprise at seeing Gary Chambers officially reinstated as an academy coach at the Halliwell Jones by the way - as if he ever truly left!).  So I'd say its important to bear in mind what the end goal is, as some aspects of the status quo don't bear up to scrutiny.  This and other solid reasons are behind the fact that a significant number of other formerly loyal supporters have lost their love for the club at various points, many having walked away a long time before 2013.  Are you also not bothered about the people who walked away the instant Station Road was sold, or when John Kidd wiped out the Trust's shares, or have lost patience with lack of progress with Agecroft... as you are talking about significant numbers?

 

My suggestion would be a better strategy could take on board some lessons from past errors of judgement, act to get the club back in touch with its real soul and insodoing have a reasonable chance of getting a significant number of lost fans back on board.  To effectively cast them aside by ignoring their rightful concerns I believe would be a massive missed opportunity.  The only other realistic option is to target an entirely new audience, as the club has arrived at a point where the scale of its remaining supporter base simply isn't big enough to sustain the business in the way it presently exists - however a strategy of targetting a new audience would not be compatible with the Trust's stated aims.  So in effect there is little choice - the Trust needs to try and reconnect with the lost supporters, or probably condemn the club to its grave.

 

"Retained at all costs" is also an interesting phrase to use and I would suggest is ill advised at this point.  Personally I would say that if it falls to the Trust to try and keep the present company afloat, any associated costs need to be realistic and fair. Plus money should be raised towards the goal of sustaining the future of the club rather than footing the bill of past mistakes taken by other people who at the time took steps to make sure they could act with total impunity.  Otherwise it may make more sense to start afresh, as has happened at the likes of Sheffield and Oldham.  At all points in this process it is necessary to ask the question - What is it that really matters? - and not lose sight of that.


Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#32 mark richardson

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 11:07 AM

Phil contained in the letter from the trust I've just received is a proposal for a structure of a new board should they take over the club
Have you read your letter?

#33 PhillH

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 11:08 AM

Just to point out that I receive NO payment from the club or anyone else for the media work that I do for Swinton or any other club I write reports for.  I am a part time media freelance journalist.

At the moment I am working with the Trust trying to keep this great club alive and all supporters that want the same should get behind the efforts being made.

 

Which is exactly my point.  Don't let Mark Richardson's mischief making confuse - whatever the topic it is Mark's long established purpose in life to try and find ways of disagreeing / discrediting whatever view I happen to express.


Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#34 mark richardson

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 11:23 AM

Ha ha
You could twist anything Mr Cameron!

Answer the question!

Edited by mark richardson, 01 December 2013 - 11:32 AM.


#35 mark richardson

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 11:32 AM

Plus you are correct in your final assertion

#36 Blue Monkey

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 04:23 PM

What an array of excellent postings within the last day or so.

 

I wonder, maybe PhillH needs to 'come in from the cold' as it were.                                                                            

 

:yahoo:



#37 Gandalf1

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 04:47 PM

I haven't posted on this forum for many years nor if truth be told have I attended Swinton matches for about 8 years. I feel compelled however to post in support of some of Phil H's comments.

 

As a past member of the trust board I left because I felt the trust wasn't acting as it should i.e. steadily acquiring more influence over the club on behalf of its members. I perceived that we were in fact more of a supporters club happy to handover cash whenever the begging bowl appeared with no appreciable return for the Trust or the fans. The Trust was 'screwed' over on a regular basis - this must not happen again.

 

Thankfully the current crisis appears to have awoken the Trust from its slumbers. As soon as Swinton left Station Rd we were on a long slow path to oblivion - ownership by one man was never a long term viable option. A club run by and for the fans was the only way forward both then and now.

 

I don't want yet another benefactor whoever the prefered option may be. The Trust must take over the club and then everyone can pull together to build a better future. There is latent support for Swinton that can be brought back (and I include myself in that) - just give us some hope and viable, sustainable plans.



#38 pricey53

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 07:54 PM

PhilH and Gandalf1 BRILLIANT

#39 mark richardson

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 08:18 PM

Gandalf. I hope you do return to the fold
I'm a big fan of the trust it is indeed an entity which will now rise up and have a more appropriate influence in club affairs
My point is that the Trust ARE now doing something and my continued reference to the letter I received yesterday is due to the fact that it is now doing so
Good people are doing good things....whichever way anyone twists it or pontificates about it....their good efforts are ultimately for the good of Swinton Lions
Questioning their motives and having the arrogance to suggest things that they are already being done due to ignorance is something I find a little premature and equally outrageous
It is not mischief making purely and simply because I have the audacity to disagree.
On this occasion anyway. ....

Edited by mark richardson, 01 December 2013 - 08:23 PM.


#40 Jonty

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 10:23 PM

Mark - I think in your posting (#29) you've misunderstood what I was meaning, but that's by-the-by.

 

Let's move on.


Edited by Jonty, 01 December 2013 - 10:24 PM.

disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.




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