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Phoenix RL - the future of RL in London


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#21 Gansons Optician

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:35 PM

Good luck to them, as long as they don't use Phoenix as their name.

Always fancied a trip to the Phoenix Club personally!



#22 nadera78

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:29 PM

The spectators are already split. Broncos have existed for 30-odd years. I imagine that few people will travel great distances to watch KPC1 so that a number of Broncos fans will gravitate towards Skolars / Hemel / Oxford anyway but for those who live in West London, the choice is between a short trip to Phoenix RL or a long one to North London. I don't imagine that many from West London will go to Wood Green with or without Phoenix RL.

 

Look the other issues are obviously going to be difficult but the choice is do nothing or do this. I can't see how "do nothing" would improve anything.

Doing this causes real damage to the other clubs. Doing nothing would allow resources to be focused on the two clubs who have shown themselves to be well run and forward thinking.


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#23 Northern Sol

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:35 PM

Doing this causes real damage to the other clubs. Doing nothing would allow resources to be focused on the two clubs who have shown themselves to be well run and forward thinking.

I see no damage in friendly competition. London is a huge city and I doubt that many people will travel huge distances to watch KPC1 rugby so most fans will be local. 

 

Skolars have done well out of the "capital challenge". I'm not sure that playing Hemel would have quite the same impact.



#24 The Parksider

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:01 PM

Or you could look on the positive side, which is that a third club has potential to develop the local rivalries and drive crowd numbers in the medium term. It might take 20 years, but one day we'll look back on the Bronco's demise (if it happens) as a turning point that started the revival of Rugby League in the capital.

 

You really don't believe this do you? Have you checked out third tier crowds? What was Hemel,v,Skolars "derby" crowds last year then? Such money spinners that there's enough in the bank to afford Championship salary cap??

 

How well did Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton in traditional areas do on their third tier derby crowds?? They managed an average of 800 a match in 2010. In 20 years time will those "derbies" see those clubs thriving?



#25 Northern Sol

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:39 PM

You really don't believe this do you? Have you checked out third tier crowds? What was Hemel,v,Skolars "derby" crowds last year then? Such money spinners that there's enough in the bank to afford Championship salary cap??

 

How well did Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton in traditional areas do on their third tier derby crowds?? They managed an average of 800 a match in 2010. In 20 years time will those "derbies" see those clubs thriving?

From memory the Skolars vs Hemel crowd was the largest of the season other than the game played just before the Challenge Cup final. About 200 speccies higher than a game against an M62 side. Skolars vs Oxford was another bumper crowd.



#26 Kenny Bania

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:51 PM

From memory the Skolars vs Hemel crowd was the largest of the season other than the game played just before the Challenge Cup final. About 200 speccies higher than a game against an M62 side. Skolars vs Oxford was another bumper crowd.

 

Much as I'm more on your side of the argument here, Hemel's home crowd against Skolars was only 336. Tiny acorns and all that, but I would have hoped for better. 



#27 Ponterover

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:09 PM

You really don't believe this do you? Have you checked out third tier crowds? What was Hemel,v,Skolars "derby" crowds last year then? Such money spinners that there's enough in the bank to afford Championship salary cap??

 

How well did Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton in traditional areas do on their third tier derby crowds?? They managed an average of 800 a match in 2010. In 20 years time will those "derbies" see those clubs thriving?

 

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#28 Northern Sol

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:21 PM

Much as I'm more on your side of the argument here, Hemel's home crowd against Skolars was only 336. Tiny acorns and all that, but I would have hoped for better. 

The same fixture at New River was 350. Oxford's visit was 409.

 

Against Rochdale it was 343.



#29 bamfordsbeans

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:59 PM

If we can entice approx 10 new teams at this level (not easy I know -but Manchester,Leicester and Coventry have been mentioned)then we could have a northern and southern championship1.The biggest issue at most levels of semi-professional and amateur level is thaeamount of travelling involved.Soth Wales v Gateshead just dosen,t make sense -not just from a cost point of view,but also the time involved.



#30 Northern Sol

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:57 PM

If we can entice approx 10 new teams at this level (not easy I know -but Manchester,Leicester and Coventry have been mentioned)then we could have a northern and southern championship1.The biggest issue at most levels of semi-professional and amateur level is thaeamount of travelling involved.Soth Wales v Gateshead just dosen,t make sense -not just from a cost point of view,but also the time involved.

Absolutely.



#31 ArmchairRhino

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:19 PM

agreed

very trite


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#32 ShotgunGold

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:25 PM

If we can entice approx 10 new teams at this level (not easy I know -but Manchester,Leicester and Coventry have been mentioned)then we could have a northern and southern championship1.The biggest issue at most levels of semi-professional and amateur level is thaeamount of travelling involved.Soth Wales v Gateshead just dosen,t make sense -not just from a cost point of view,but also the time involved.

 

Completely agree. It's a very big hurdle to get over. But once we are over it the clubs would save a helluva lot of $$$$$$.

 

North

 

Gateshead

Hunslet

Oldham

York

?

?

?

?

 

South

 

Coventry

Gloucester

Hemel

North London

Oxford

South Wales

?

?

 

Could two conferences of eight be feasible? With joint play-offs and Grand Final. It would really save on $$$, but would still be a great league I think.

 

Neath to Gateshead: 352 miles, 5 hours 23 minutes.

 

Neath to North London: 196 miles, 3 hours 13 minutes

Gateshead to Wrexham: 193 miles, 3 hours 11 minutes.


Edited by ShotgunGold, 03 December 2013 - 07:35 PM.

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#33 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:01 PM

London should have been given far more support and promotion before they were allowed to wither on the Vine.
 
Its a lot easier to build on the foundations you have than keep restarting again and again. IMO

Maybe they should have run the club properly from within as well. That would have helped considerably.
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#34 yipyee

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:13 PM

There are nowhere near enough players, fans, investors or media interest in London to support 3 KPC1 clubs. You'd be cannibalising Skolars and Hemel to create a third team and thereby re-creating the exact same problems we see in the north where too many small clubs are fighting over the same resources.

You don't grow by throwing money all over the shop, you focus your resources in a way that strengthens and builds upon what you've already got.

There are plenty of rugby players in london if you think outside the box....

If its a third party adding money thats more money into rl that wasnt there before!!

Didnt Fulham generate large crowds in div2?

Edited by yipyee, 03 December 2013 - 08:26 PM.


#35 Padge

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:02 PM

There are plenty of rugby players in london if you think outside the box....

If its a third party adding money thats more money into rl that wasnt there before!!

Didnt Fulham generate large crowds in div2?

 

 Fulham were the highest supported team in Division 2 in their first season and 4th overall in the league



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#36 Methven Hornet

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:04 PM

There are plenty of rugby players in london if you think outside the box....

If its a third party adding money thats more money into rl that wasnt there before!!

Didnt Fulham generate large crowds in div2?


They did, but they soon dried up with yo-yoing between the divisions.

If they'd have entered at the Huyton or Doncaster playing standard, which is more the level this proposed club is aiming at, then they'd have probably attracted bottom of div 2 crowds.
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#37 Methven Hornet

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:07 PM

The document has been produced by someone called Steve Newcombe. That name rings a bell - anyone any ideas?
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#38 yipyee

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:23 PM

They did, but they soon dried up with yo-yoing between the divisions.

If they'd have entered at the Huyton or Doncaster playing standard, which is more the level this proposed club is aiming at, then they'd have probably attracted bottom of div 2 crowds.


Whats interesting here is you start with fact then turn to opinion.....

The fact will do for me, big crowds, dwindled because of p&r enough said!

#39 longboard

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:45 PM

Good luck to them, as long as they don't use Phoenix as their name.

 

Yes. They should park that one.



#40 Spicer

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:57 PM

What a complete nonsense.




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