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Phoenix RL - the future of RL in London


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#41 keighley

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 03:27 AM

There are nowhere near enough players, fans, investors or media interest in London to support 3 KPC1 clubs. You'd be cannibalising Skolars and Hemel to create a third team and thereby re-creating the exact same problems we see in the north where too many small clubs are fighting over the same resources.

 

You don't grow by throwing money all over the shop, you focus your resources in a way that strengthens and builds upon what you've already got.

 

London has over 8 million people. If these people want to start a team in the South West as against Skolars in the north east and Broncos also north of the river and Hemel in the suburbs the more power to them. Over 8 million and a geographical area that is huge. It can flame and burn out or take hold and prosper. The game will either prosper ot maintain the status quo depending on which scenario plays out. It seems to be a no brainer to support the initiative and we will see where it leads.


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#42 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 07:47 AM

What's wrong with Phoenix?
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#43 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:48 AM

What's wrong with Phoenix?

trite and tacky


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#44 Futtocks

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:53 AM

How about Fulham RLFC? B) 


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#45 Rascal Bongo Stork

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:05 AM

Doing this causes real damage to the other clubs. Doing nothing would allow resources to be focused on the two clubs who have shown themselves to be well run and forward thinking.

 

It's a long shot this new club will ever get up and running in CC1 but if they did I really dont think they'd be impinging on the other 2. How many people travel from South West London to watch the Skolars? Not a lot I'd guess. How many people travel from South West London to watch the Stags? None? As for sponsorship - how many of the Stags' current sponsors would be interested in ditching them and sponsoring Phoenix instead? None. That'd go for the main Skolars sponsors too.

So...a new Phoenix club wouldnt take many fans off the other two - indeed, they would give them a reasonable away support once or twice a season as a bonus & it wouldnt take sponsorship off the other two. The South East is a huge area with many millions of people, it can support several small CC1 level clubs. Unfortunately it doesnt seem able to support one full time professional club but that's a different issue.

The only problem would be the player pool but I'm sure that is not an insurmountable issue. I'm sure there'll probably be a surplus of players for a few years now the Broncos have shut their academy. Plus the RL will definitely start up a new one if the Broncos are toast.The players wont be of the same calibre no doubt but I'm sure it'd be capable of producing CC1 players.



#46 nadera78

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:13 AM

London has over 8 million people. If these people want to start a team in the South West as against Skolars in the north east and Broncos also north of the river and Hemel in the suburbs the more power to them. Over 8 million and a geographical area that is huge. It can flame and burn out or take hold and prosper. The game will either prosper ot maintain the status quo depending on which scenario plays out. It seems to be a no brainer to support the initiative and we will see where it leads.

No brainer is the right word for it.

 

I love how the people who fetishise the 'small clubs are the strength of our game' idea are so keen on recreating that failed model in London.


Edited by nadera78, 04 December 2013 - 11:13 AM.

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#47 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:17 AM

No brainer is the right word for it.

 

I love how the people who fetishise the 'small clubs are the strength of our game' idea are so keen on recreating that failed model in London.

Far less of a failed model than the current "Let's have a SL club in London that moves around every 3-4 years and never builds a local following".



#48 nadera78

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:19 AM

Far less of a failed model than the current "Let's have a SL club in London that moves around every 3-4 years and never builds a local following".

Who, apart from Dave Hughes, Gus Mackay and Nigel Wood, has said that that is a good idea? No-one.


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#49 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:23 AM

Who, apart from Dave Hughes, Gus Mackay and Nigel Wood, has said that that is a good idea? No-one.

Supporting ideas that make the nomadic existance an inevitability comes to much the same thing.



#50 nadera78

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:26 AM

Supporting ideas that make the nomadic existance an inevitability comes to much the same thing.

Solid argument you've got there.


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#51 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:30 AM

Solid argument you've got there.

 

Moving to a new location with no team, 2 backroom staff, no academy, no assetts and tiny and dwindling support base will just see exactly the same drama 2-3 years down the line.

 

And this is assuming that anyone wants them as tenants and somebody is interested in funding them. Both very much in doubt.

 

Still oblivion is better than being a small club, isn't it?



#52 nadera78

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:16 PM

Moving to a new location with no team, 2 backroom staff, no academy, no assetts and tiny and dwindling support base will just see exactly the same drama 2-3 years down the line.

 

And this is assuming that anyone wants them as tenants and somebody is interested in funding them. Both very much in doubt.

 

Still oblivion is better than being a small club, isn't it?

Where did I say that? What I said was that London RL does not have the resources for 3 KPC1 clubs, and that adding a third will do nothing but damage the two already existing clubs. But then, you're just doing your usual thing of making one statement and then changing it as you go along. Like in the cross-code forum, where you got your a*se handed to you....


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#53 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:41 PM

Didn't Hunslet have an official Phoenix identity when they reformed in the 70s?
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
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#54 EdinburghExile

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:09 PM

Didn't Hunslet have an official Phoenix identity when they reformed in the 70s?

Well they were called New Hunslet for about five seasons, not sure if the phoenix-type thing on the badge was connected to the relaunch though.



#55 gingerjon

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:23 PM

Well they were called New Hunslet for about five seasons, not sure if the phoenix-type thing on the badge was connected to the relaunch though.

 

You have to assume it was

 

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#56 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:30 PM

Where did I say that? What I said was that London RL does not have the resources for 3 KPC1 clubs, and that adding a third will do nothing but damage the two already existing clubs. But then, you're just doing your usual thing of making one statement and then changing it as you go along. Like in the cross-code forum, where you got your a*se handed to you....

Only in your mind did I get my ###### "handed to me". As usual any rabidly anti-union statement will get "likes" and any attempt to discuss subjects reasonably will be considered "getting your ###### handed to you". A function of who posts in that sub-forum rather than any measurement of rational argumentation.

 

Now if we try to tackle this one logically. London does not have two KPC1 sides at present so you are way off to begin with. Hemel is not in London and not considered to be in London by anyone other than RL fans with a poor sense of logical geography. Now Oxford and Hemel joining KPC1 did not cause a crisis at Skolars, they, in fact, had a rather good season.

 

So why should a West London side suddenly create a crisis when West London is even further away than Hemel? There is no reasoning behind your "mustn't spread resources too thinly" argument. London is a city that is getting on for twice the size of Yorkshire. It's like arguing that you can't have a side in Sheffield because there is already one in Leeds.



#57 Kenny Bania

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:58 PM

. Hemel is not in London and not considered to be in London by anyone other than RL fans with a poor sense of logical geography. 

 

 

 

This, this, a thousand times this. If Hemel was in London it wouldn't have cost me the thick end of £20 for a return to Euston at the weekend...



#58 keighley

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:18 PM

No brainer is the right word for it.

 

I love how the people who fetishise the 'small clubs are the strength of our game' idea are so keen on recreating that failed model in London.

 

Do you mean like Featherstone, Halifax, Castleford, Hull KR, Huddersfield pre Davy, Widnes, Salford pre Koukash, the present Crusaders, Hemel who just joined the pro ranks and built a new stand, Batley who got to the Championship final or Sheffield who from ceasing to exist a very few years ago are now repeat championship winners. Also it would seem to me that the failed model at Skolars has a much better long term future than the mega successful, all bells and whistles, super dooper SL franchise, mutton masquerading as lamb Broncos. 

 

Get over it, RL in the UK is a small team operation at the top and a smaller team operation lower down. The likes of Man U and Arsenal we will never see ever and those who think along emulating such soccer behemoths are the true fantasists and are truly operating on reduced mental capacity.


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#59 Jeff Stein

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:29 PM

Strange that Hemel's A and junior sides play in London leagues. Perhaps someone should go and logically explain geography to them.

 

It seems bizarre to suggest a comparison of resources between Skolars/Hemel and Sheffield/London. Between the former there is one amateur club sort of between them in St Albans. With the other there is all of the heavy woollen district and Wakey/Cas/Fev even before considering the clubs in South Leeds.


Edited by Jeff Stein, 04 December 2013 - 02:37 PM.


#60 gingerjon

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:33 PM

Do you mean like Featherstone, Halifax, Castleford, Hull KR, Huddersfield pre Davy, Widnes, Salford pre Koukash, the present Crusaders, Hemel who just joined the pro ranks and built a new stand, Batley who got to the Championship final or Sheffield who from ceasing to exist a very few years ago are now repeat championship winners. Also it would seem to me that the failed model at Skolars has a much better long term future than the mega successful, all bells and whistles, super dooper SL franchise, mutton masquerading as lamb Broncos. 

 

Get over it, RL in the UK is a small team operation at the top and a smaller team operation lower down. The likes of Man U and Arsenal we will never see ever and those who think along emulating such soccer behemoths are the true fantasists and are truly operating on reduced mental capacity.

 

Exactly.  We must keep rugby league to ourselves.


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