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A right to know?


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#21 jonnyg28

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:18 AM

Do a good job and bring stability

#22 Peewagg

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:37 AM

No doubt people are working hard to sort this out. However, all this could have been avoided if the Trust had fought to regain the shares it lost in the last restructure. They were stiffed out of what was rightfully theirs and did nothing about it.I am not having a go at individuals, or the trust, as they do valuable work. But I think that, for the sake of the club, they need to be more aggressive.

Any member of The Supporters' Trust, can submit a nomination form to become a member of the Board (before 20.12.13.). For YEARS this job has been left to (mostly) the same faithful few (as, to put it mildly, others can't be arsed!), who despite having taken quite a lot of stick from the club AND from supporters at times, have loyally STUCK TO THE TASK. If some of the 'bleaters' were more prepared to get their fingers out, get involved on the 'front line' and HELP, things would be easier.
Trust membership is not much more than TWO QUID A MONTH for God's sake and the cost of being a Board Member is simply TIME AND EFFORT.
By Christ, we're gonna need every single snippet of help we can get!
Scott. I can't begin to calculate the number of times a Share Certificate has been requested from the club!

#23 StockportLion

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:22 PM

I can't begin to calculate the number of times a Share Certificate has been requested from the club!

 

Maybe the request should now become a demand as surely this is a legal document that has to be produced when legitimately requested.



#24 marshy1

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:29 PM

In the old company yes. But a newco was formed a few years back and it is this ( the current company ) that the trust do not hold shares in.
Also depending on the type so share issued they may not have allowed the trust any voting rights, plus the weighting I imagine would have been in favour of the Kidd family.

#25 PhillH

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:37 PM

In the old company yes. But a newco was formed a few years back and it is this ( the current company ) that the trust do not hold shares in.
Also depending on the type so share issued they may not have allowed the trust any voting rights, plus the weighting I imagine would have been in favour of the Kidd family.

 

A key point being that in the opinion of a good many people, it was unjust for the Trust to not be given shares in the NewCo.

 

Reason being as you well know by now Alan - John Kidd attended a Trust meeting prior to the creation of the NewCo, at which he tabelled 3 options for the Trust's consideration.  The Trust members voted to retain the Trust's independence from the club, in light of a commitment that John gave - i.e. to honour the Trust's shareholding within the structure of the NewCo. The Trust also held a formal board position at that point.  The restructuring also saw the team take a hit of 6 points in the league that season - a cheaper option for John than a legitimate buyout.

 

It is clear from several years of subsequent returns to Companies House that John thus far has never delivered upon the key commitment to provide the Trust with the NewCo shares, which in effect wiped out circa £40k that the Trust had invested directly into the club to that point.  People can hardly be blamed for seriously questioning whether the Trust was treated equitably in such circumstances.

 

We need to face up to it - this was the turn of events that left many previously proactive Trust members, decent people that had bought into the Trust concept and gone the extra mile to raise the money that was vital in saving the club when White & Barrow walked away, feeling cheated.  While people's main anger was focussed on the actions of John Kidd and David Jones, they also felt let down to some degree by the people leading the Trust, as the Trust leadership was put into the kind of situation where a failure to take effective action was almost tantamount to becoming a part of the problem.

 

So its unsurprising that we've seen a drop-off in Trust membership and lessening of the Trust's fund raising ability.

 

If the situation is to now be reversed, the people at the top of the Trust today need to demonstrate not only that they have the right vision, but they are also strong enough leaders.  People quite reasonably want not only the "right to know", but also the "right to be treated fairly" and are fully aware of the track record of that not having happened in the not-to-distant past.


Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#26 Jonty

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:42 PM


Botched post - ignore

 


Edited by Jonty, 10 December 2013 - 08:44 PM.

disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#27 Jonty

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:56 PM

A key point being that in the opinion of a good many people, it was unjust for the Trust to not be given shares in the NewCo.

 

Reason being as you well know by now Alan - John Kidd attended a Trust meeting prior to the creation of the NewCo, at which he tabelled 3 options for the Trust's consideration.  The Trust members voted to retain the Trust's independence from the club, in light of a commitment that John gave - i.e. to honour the Trust's shareholding within the structure of the NewCo. The Trust also held a formal board position at that point.  The restructuring also saw the team take a hit of 6 points in the league that season - a cheaper option for John than a legitimate buyout.

 

It is clear from several years of subsequent returns to Companies House that John thus far has never delivered upon the key commitment to provide the Trust with the NewCo shares, which in effect wiped out circa £40k that the Trust had invested directly into the club to that point.  People can hardly be blamed for seriously questioning whether the Trust was treated equitably in such circumstances.

 

The shareholding of the OldCo was always very intriguing.

 

When it was formed in 2002 there were two shareholders - Malcolm White with 500 and David Jones with 499. In October 2003 the Trust bought 800 shares - essentially making it the largest shareholder - for £48,870. At the same time David Jones was issued with 2,550 shares and John Kidd with 500. Another supporter purchased 150 shares. So, from a total of 4,999 shares, the Trust held 800 at this point.

 

Then comes the intriguing bit.

 

During the Christmas period of 2005 a total of 25,000 shares - essentially an 83% stake in the company - were issued to a company called Blue Lion Investments. If Blue Lion - whoever they were - bought their shares for the same value as the Trust it would have been an investment of over £1.5m. Clearly, £1.5m wasn't invested in the club for the start of the 2006 season.

 

That's all by-the-by as the company was taken into administration in April 2007 and the NewCo formed, with JK, PK and David Jones taking 3,333 each of 9.999 shares. At the meeting at the Masonic Hall around this time, John made it very clear that the Trust would be offered a stake equivalent to their shareholding in the OldCo, as I remember writing the various three options down for him.

 

The Trust voted (unanimously, if I remember) to accept the share offer.


disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#28 GLENNGARY

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:09 PM

As it's looking more than likely that Koukash and the other invester  have lost interest and the trust have to step in to save the lions. Where will the finances to run a successful club in the championship come from?



#29 RIGGY

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:50 PM

See you all on Monday night guys



#30 Gandalf1

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:53 PM

I wouldn't give a penny to the club or the trust until someone damn well communicates what on earth is going on.  If Swinton are finished tell us - if not explain the position and what is needed for the club to continue. We aren't idiots.



#31 RIGGY

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 11:14 PM

As I said see you Monday !!



#32 duffymoon

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 11:18 PM

I'm baffled as to why Koukash was informing anyone who cared to listen at the Salford open day that he was keen to buy Swinton and then we hear nothing!

#33 Blue Monkey

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 11:19 PM

I wouldn't give a penny to the club or the trust until someone damn well communicates what on earth is going on.  If Swinton are finished tell us - if not explain the position and what is needed for the club to continue. We aren't idiots.

 

I think you'll find that the trust will be communicating with all those gathered at next Monday night's meeting.

 

:sungum:



#34 mark richardson

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:06 AM

I wouldn't give a penny to the club or the trust until someone damn well communicates what on earth is going on. If Swinton are finished tell us - if not explain the position and what is needed for the club to continue. We aren't idiots.

Why should the Trust communicate anything to you?
You're not a member
Its like asking the AA to fix your car when you're in the RAC
How about counting yourself lucky that they will?

Edited by mark richardson, 11 December 2013 - 07:09 AM.


#35 marshy1

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:19 AM

Gandalf1 will you be of the same opinion if it is ultimately the trust who end up running the club.
You will have seen that following last nights trust meeting a full open supporters meeting has been called to explain the position so far.

This of course is from the trusts point of view and will set out their involvement since learning of the clubs immediate financial troubles. This is not a fund raising meeting ( although Trust membership forms will be available) it is simply the trust doing what it said it would a few weeks ago.

#36 mark richardson

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:40 AM

I'm pretty certain that the Trust is open to all
I would suggest to those who disagree with how it is run to join it and change it by democratic means rather than bleating on about its failures.

#37 Jonty

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:09 AM

I'm pretty certain that the Trust is open to all
I would suggest to those who disagree with how it is run to join it and change it by democratic means rather than bleating on about its failures.

 

And Monday is a great opportunity to put your money where your mouth is. Bring your £25 and join up on the night!

 

I seem to think that the only people that can't become Trust members are U18s, for legal reasons. If it was ever needed, that can always be dealt with by having a junior section/committee that has an adult representative in the Trust, which is what FC United do.


disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#38 mark richardson

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:17 PM

Junior lions reinvented?
Good idea

#39 Mark

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:50 PM

Do the Trust do an NHS discount? I am a poor NHS worker!!!!


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#40 StockportLion

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 02:04 PM

Why should the Trust communicate anything to you?
You're not a member
Its like asking the AA to fix your car when you're in the RAC
How about counting yourself lucky that they will?

 

I agree that if you are not a member of something you have no reason to expect anything from it however with regards to the current plight of the club this is an exceptional situation & I assume the idea is to attract new fans to the club & boost Trust membership. So if we follow your argument then what about all the potential supporters who are not members of the Trust? How can they make an informed decision if they are frozen out?

Pointing out that non-members are lucky that the Trust is communicating with them is not really what the message should be, rather it was that we are ALL lucky that the Trust is there to take on this responsibility.






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