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#21 Scubby

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:58 AM

I must have missed his world class performances, aside from Melbourne in 92. Easily done in an age with less wall to wall coverage, and Wigan dominance.

 

TBF if you watch most tests from the 1989/90 Kiwis tour, through the Ashes of 1990, 1992 - very few can argue he was pretty special. This was after he reinvented himself from a running centre in the early 1980s. His tries against Australia in 1984 and 1986 were also spectacular.



#22 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:02 AM

Letters page is always a delight. I use it as a reference point to assess how "care in the community" is coming along.

Phil Hodgson has now got to the stage where he has become a parody of himself. A bit like Stevo, Michael Calvin & Stephen Jones. The actual person can't be that daft, but there is now a public image to play up to, which results in tiresome old cliches trotted out time and time again.

Bless.

Just catching up again on this thread.

 

Your comment about the letters page is a real hoot.

 

Our correspondents unfortunately can't all be as smart as you clearly are.

 

For example, the lead letter this week is from Michael O'Hare, who is on the editorial team at New Scientist magazine. "Care in the Community" indeed.

 

I don't know as much about our other correspondents, but they all make some interesting points, and I would cut down on the intellectual snobbery, if I were you.

 

Phil Hodgson is grounded in the genuine grass roots of the game, and his views tend to reflect that.

 

I'm sorry if you think that he is therefore a parody of himself (whatever you mean by that, and I must admit I'm not sure).



#23 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:08 AM

The letters page is anachronistic, tedious and irrelevant in the internet forum age.

What is tedious and irrelevant is having to read through endless posts on a forum to get to the ones that genuinely have something to say, that is well expressed and not repetitive.

 

At least the contributions to our Mailbag page are edited to modify some of those characteristics, which are given free rein on a forum.

 

If you have a point to make, then of course you have the option of posting on a forum, but the impact of a letter in our Mailbag is far greater than many of the postings on the forum.

 

Having said that, the world has changed and we are giving some thought to how our Mailbag pages could be updated to reflect a wider range of views.



#24 marklaspalmas

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:00 PM

What is tedious and irrelevant is having to read through endless posts on a forum to get to the ones that genuinely have something to say, that is well expressed and not repetitive.

 

At least the contributions to our Mailbag page are edited to modify some of those characteristics, which are given free rein on a forum.

 

If you have a point to make, then of course you have the option of posting on a forum, but the impact of a letter in our Mailbag is far greater than many of the postings on the forum.

 

Having said that, the world has changed and we are giving some thought to how our Mailbag pages could be updated to reflect a wider range of views.

 

Fair play, but it just doesn't read like that to me at all. There is (next to) nothing there you couldn't read on here in real time. The idea of "in reply to last week's letter by Mr. Frothy-mouth of Brighouse" with the necessary seven day delay on and without the original letter, followed by the self-same trite sarcasm is just the same as you get on every forum, regardless of 'editing'.


 

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#25 ckn

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:43 PM

What is tedious and irrelevant is having to read through endless posts on a forum to get to the ones that genuinely have something to say, that is well expressed and not repetitive.

 

At least the contributions to our Mailbag page are edited to modify some of those characteristics, which are given free rein on a forum.

 

If you have a point to make, then of course you have the option of posting on a forum, but the impact of a letter in our Mailbag is far greater than many of the postings on the forum.

 

Having said that, the world has changed and we are giving some thought to how our Mailbag pages could be updated to reflect a wider range of views.

I'd disagree on your top 3 paragraphs, that's very much a print journalism mindset that seems to not realise the impact of the modern internet.  The way this forum is set up means that a post will almost immediately be indexed by Google and the other search engines and be very high up the searches for those subjects.  Have a play with some of the main topics on the front page of this forum!  I have Google Alerts set up for some rugby league subjects and I get notifications almost immediately on some sensitive things that if I had to wait for print would either be late or irrelevant.  For example, I found out about Terry Newton's death through a post made on here that triggered an email from Google Alerts that I got on my phone, all long before any major media source had picked up the story and while I was not likely to be looking at the forum for hours.

 

Finally, if you want to look at it in the terms of "quality", surely this forum is more like a peer-reviewed journal than an editorially-reviewed magazine?  Put up an idiot argument on here and it'll get demolished in short order.  Put up an idiot letter to LE and it just needs to get through the editorial process.  On the other side, put up an excellent post here and it gets read and will still get reviews.  Put up an excellent letter to LE and it might not get published if there's not enough space or doesn't fit with the editorial drive of that issue.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#26 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:19 PM

I'd disagree on your top 3 paragraphs, that's very much a print journalism mindset that seems to not realise the impact of the modern internet.  The way this forum is set up means that a post will almost immediately be indexed by Google and the other search engines and be very high up the searches for those subjects.  Have a play with some of the main topics on the front page of this forum!  I have Google Alerts set up for some rugby league subjects and I get notifications almost immediately on some sensitive things that if I had to wait for print would either be late or irrelevant.  For example, I found out about Terry Newton's death through a post made on here that triggered an email from Google Alerts that I got on my phone, all long before any major media source had picked up the story and while I was not likely to be looking at the forum for hours.

 

Finally, if you want to look at it in the terms of "quality", surely this forum is more like a peer-reviewed journal than an editorially-reviewed magazine?  Put up an idiot argument on here and it'll get demolished in short order.  Put up an idiot letter to LE and it just needs to get through the editorial process.  On the other side, put up an excellent post here and it gets read and will still get reviews.  Put up an excellent letter to LE and it might not get published if there's not enough space or doesn't fit with the editorial drive of that issue.

I'm not sure we disagree.

 

Your first paragraph points out that the advantage of the Internet, and of a forum like this, is its immediacy and its potential for being read by large numbers of people.

 

That is undeniable, and you don't need to be any particular kind of journalist to be able to see that.

 

But the potential is all too often not realised.

 

Your second paragraph makes a fair point, although I wouldn't quite compare a forum to a peer-reviewed journal myself. An idiot may find his argument is demolished, but all too often the idiot is the last person to realise it, and forum topics become a ######-for-tat process that only a few individuals can be bothered to read. Reading through forum topics can sometimes be infuriating for that reason.

 

But both have their advantages, and the trick is to recognise both.


Edited by Martyn Sadler, 13 December 2013 - 03:20 PM.

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#27 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:37 PM

I can see the point about the changing role of letters pages. We are in a transitional period with papers/Internet. Who knows where we'll end up. Letters pages may go the way of either beta max or vinyl. It's too early to tell.
I may be in a minority of 1 but I note that Schofield considers that there haven't been a good half back since him and Andy Greg. He wasn't even the best 6 at any stage in his own era, but to dismiss every decent half since then is insane and ungenerous as well as deluded. I might even write a letter to that effect. He couldn't have laced Tony Myler's boots.

#28 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:51 PM

I can see the point about the changing role of letters pages. We are in a transitional period with papers/Internet. Who knows where we'll end up. Letters pages may go the way of either beta max or vinyl. It's too early to tell.
I may be in a minority of 1 but I note that Schofield considers that there haven't been a good half back since him and Andy Greg. He wasn't even the best 6 at any stage in his own era, but to dismiss every decent half since then is insane and ungenerous as well as deluded. I might even write a letter to that effect. He couldn't have laced Tony Myler's boots.

Tony Myler was one of the greatest players we have produced since the war, but sadly his career was all too often disrupted by a chronic knee injury.

 

For that reason he probably isn't as well known as he might be. His GB career was relatively short, from 1983 to 1986. He played at stand=-off when Garry played at centre.

 

I certainly think that Garry could lace Tony's boots, but both were very fine players.

 

And, however you look at it, we have struggled to get a settled halfback combination in the Super League era, with the role of the traditional stand-off half being significantly downplayed. I wish it weren't so.



#29 Gansons Optician

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 05:20 PM

Highlight of the letters page for me this year was the bloke who wrote in to League Express and League Weekly, pretending to be his Cas (I think) supporting colleague followed by a grovelling apology seven days later!

 

Other than that I find it repetitive and rather depressing.



#30 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 08:55 PM

Highlight of the letters page for me this year was the bloke who wrote in to League Express and League Weekly, pretending to be his Cas (I think) supporting colleague followed by a grovelling apology seven days later!

 

Other than that I find it repetitive and rather depressing.

As the editor of League Express I can't remember that at all.

 

Can you give us chapter and verse?



#31 southstand loiner

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:03 PM

may I suggest if people don't like that particular page they don't read it . after all there are plenty of other very interesting pages inside the paper  which are more than worth the price of the paper


ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#32 jt

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:48 PM

Have we got a review of this Mondays league express




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