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Tonight's Meeting

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35 replies to this topic

#21 PhillH

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:24 PM

Your way forward is Sedgeley Park and supporters run club, surely the kidds have full responsibility for running up the debt and not the fans, ditch them for their disingenuous mess and try to negotiate a debt free restart even if it means a drop down with us as a consequence, I truly hope the Lions survive and love going to the park!


You have a very good point in terms of the debt, in the circumstance that the Trust does take over the running of the club.  Would it be realistic for supporters to be inspired to go the extra mile, do things on a matchday to help reduce overheads and run fundraisers etc, if the end result is to pay off historic debts run up by the Kidds previously running the club in stealth mode?  Personally I think not.  If the focus was instead on securing a better future for the club, it would be a very different matter.


Plus, pragmatically speaking, given - the likely scale of the playing budget if the Trust took control, the ongoing uncertainty and present status of the squad, plus the possible number of relegation slots next season (the latter being dependent on the RFL finally specifying what it is going to do in terms of restructuring the leagues) - Ian Watson will have to be a miracle worker to avoid the drop happening anyway.


Another sticky area if the home venue is to be Park Lane is the question of minimum standards.  Whilst the Trust was not party to whatever negotiations took place, the indications from John Kidd in 2011 were that the RFL would not allow Championship level rugby to be played at Park Lane without there being significant investment (a figure in the region of £60k was mentioned if I remember rightly).  That was part of the reasoning given to the fans for the move to the LSV.


However! There is simply no getting away from the bottom line that in order for Swinton Lions to get anywhere near its full potential ever again requires a new ground in the Swinton area.  Playing at Park Lane would provide a relatively low cost venue and in the short term could be the right move as a means of survival, but it can never be a receipe to grow Swinton Lions. It would be a case of the Lions surviving on a gradually eroding hardcore of support.  The fact Park Lane is outside the City Boundaries has major implications for aspects such as funding for community work and suchlike.


I would love to believe that bringing a new ground into being in M27 (especially as central as the suggested site at the former St Ambrose Barlow High School) could be achieveable through voluntary efforts, but in truth that is unlikely so long as the Council takes its existing stance of not being prepared to put any cash into the facilitation.  Consequently my feeling is that the Koukash interest has to be the way to go, provided a deal can be done that gives the right basis for subsequent progress to be actually delivered on.  My gut feeling is that Dr Koukash has pretty sound judgement of the conditions he needs as a starting point and those are the things presently being worked on.

Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#22 Ayres Rock

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:34 PM

I am a Salford fan but have lived in Swinton pretty much all my life and played rugby in the area just as long. It was a crying shame for Swinton when they lost Station Road and i truly feel for you all in what you have had to endure the past 20 years.


As a town Swinton is slowly but surely going down hill and i say this as a resident and not from a sporting point. I think it will be met with a lot of resistance from the locals in that area but it would, for Swinton rugby be a great place to have the satdium and to have the team back in the area. It will no doubt having a big economic impact on the area as well, particular is the Dr. thows his money at Swinton nas he is doing so with Salford.


Good Luck to you all and i hope that the Dr. does get his way with Salford council and this gets the nod.


#23 PhillH

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

Honestly and truthfully I can't see Ambrose Barlow as a good site
Id hate a stadium in my back yard.
Someone suggested Moorside school too which I find even more unrealistic
I find it hard to believe that Agecroft is out due to its size and Ambrose is bigger?

I couldn't go on Monday. I appreciate all the effort that people put in. It really shows what is possible when backs are against the wall
Im sure I'm not alone in hoping for something concrete in the very near future.


Some resisitance from some local residents is inevitable whichever location is chosen.  Its a balance and the key is to win the argument that the development will bring an overall net benefit.


The Agecroft site is owned by the Prison Service and leased to the Council, whereas the Ambrose Barlow site is 100% in Local Authority ownership.  Straight away that gives the Ambrose Barlow site an edge.


If the stadium design incorporates provision of facilities for community benefit 7-days-a-week, some of those benefits may have a positive impact for local residents and businesses alike.  The council itself would firmly fall into the category of a local business - I would imagine a stadium with the capability to host large scale meetings and conferences right on its doorstep would be highly useful to it.  The positive impact for community uses could only be enhanced by having a town centre location that is so easily accessible - something Barton has not delivered on as its too remote for the majority of the City's residents (especially from the perspective of the younger generations).


Plus on a matchday the Ambrose Barlow site has the benefit of bringing large numbers of people into the pre-existing commercial centre.


I suspect that the overall development of the Ambrose Barlow land will include that of the old school buildings.  Admittedly they are seperated from the playing fields, but nevertheless if something could be put on the footprint of the old buildings to raise revenue (most likely residential) it could be an important part of the overall scheme's viability - scope for that simply doesn't exist at Agecroft without there being additional land put into the equation.

Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#24 Shizonamy

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:53 PM

Phil H you need to get on board with the trust. Everyone is doing such a good job and you can offer so much.
"A lion sleeps in the heart of every brave man." Turkish Proverb

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#25 duffymoon

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:02 PM

Phil H you need to get on board with the trust. Everyone is doing such a good job and you can offer so much.

yes I agree! Personal differences should be set aside,Phils input would be beneficial.

#26 Jonty

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:36 PM

It's a shame that nominations have closed for the Swinton South council by-election next month. Would have been interesting to have seen a candidate put up for it...

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Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#27 mark richardson

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:58 PM

I totally agree. ..its a fabulous location. If it had been built in 1930 nobody would be bothered

#28 marshy1

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:10 PM

Just as was said at the meeting, there are complications with the land which cannot be released just yet. This is no smoke screen and in  fairness nothing to do with Swinton or the supporters trust and so it is very unfair to comment.


We just have to place as much pressure on the council as possible in order to make them want to allow things to happen.


As for Phil wanting to get involved I agree, but don't just put him forward, anyone who thinks they can help no matter how small needs to come forward and help keep the Swinton club afloat.

#29 greengrass

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:11 PM

I agree with what everyone as said on this topic, but I also believe where ever we play we can still increase our crowd. Under John Kidd he was not interested in raising the awareness of the club he was happy with the crowd he had, marketing is a very powerful tool if used correctly.  


I honestly believe that we can increase our crowd by raising the awareness of the club and offering incentives for new fans, I know this is not going to happen over night but if we can attract 1 new fan then we build from that. (Rome was not built in a day)


We need to be seen as a positive club and getting out there in the general public, I also believe under new ownership whoever this maybe this will have a positive effect on getting the old fans back.


When I played rugby when I was younger first thing I was taught and still use it now when I am doing business at work is "keep to the basics and not over complicate things and you will succeed", I believe this is case to attracting new fans, I.E posters, regular newsletters to members, more work on social media websites.


If we don't succeed then at least we know we have tried, at the moment we are pursume that because we are not in Swinton then its doom and gloom.  As my good mate del boy says "He who dares wins" ;)

#30 parky

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:16 PM

Not so sure about the 100% Local Authority ownership,I think the Dept of Education will have the most to say before it even gets to the Local Authority.

#31 PhillH

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:46 PM

Having refamiliarised myself with the site today, there's another possibilty that I think should be thrown into the mix in the event development goes ahead.


If you take a look at the buildings that are in the space between the St Ambrose Barlow playing fields and Partington Lane - i.e. the Swinton NHS Clinic and Ambulance Centre - there's no doubting the civil structures have all seen better days and in truth could really do with being replaced.


There's a potentially useful examplar to follow in the shape of the Halliwell Jones Stadium, which incorporates NHS facilities into one of the stands.  Definitely a concept worth a good dose of thinking about.

Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#32 marshy1

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:50 PM

Phil, the plans have already been drawn up in respect of the way the site will be utilised and of course with it being Koucash's baby I doubt we would have much say in what may or may not be proposed but the inclusion of an NHS site even if just for the ambulances is a reasonable shout.

#33 Martin

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:52 PM

I would imagine the NHS Clinic (is that dentist's still there also?) would be shut down and moved to the new Swinton Gateway which will be the refurbished Crompton House next to St. Peters.

#34 PhillH

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:02 PM

I would imagine the NHS Clinic (is that dentist's still there also?) would be shut down and moved to the new Swinton Gateway which will be the refurbished Crompton House next to St. Peters.


If that Clinic building is not shut down it will probably fall down looking at the state of it.  Should keep a lid on the demolition costs!


If the overall scope of the plan includes that section its quite a swathe of high value land in truth. 

Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#35 Blue Monkey

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:59 PM

...but I agree it will meet with opposition from local residents.


Not necessarily, the existing high wall may play a part in 'protecting' residents on Stanwell Road and the top of Shaftesbury Road, especially if direct access can be established from Chorley Road, close to the post office or through the post office site itself if it is closed down as has been implied in certain quarters.


The 'high brick wall' on Stanwell Road is, I believe, part of the actual wall which completely surrounded the old Swinton Industrial Schools (visited by Charles Dickens himself) which were eventually replaced by our town hall in the 1930s. If I'm wrong, I apologise.



Edited by Blue Monkey, 18 December 2013 - 07:00 PM.

#36 Paul Davidson

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 10:18 PM

No matter which route we go down in the next few months, Dr K or Supporters' Trust, we will need a whole host of people on board and prepared to devote some time to the new set-up and also to raise funds.....yes, even if Dr K comes in and builds a stadium I doubt that he'll be gifting it over to Swinton Lions should he decide to walk away in a few years time. We will still need to do some hefty fundraising to prepare for the possibility that at some stage in the future the Trust need to step in and run the club......a war-chest I think is the term which has been mentioned a couple of times!

Your club and your Trust need you!