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London Broncos and future expansion


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#1 choco128

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 08:25 PM

Hi im new to the forum and relatively new to rugby league. As a new fan to the sport and being from ireland ive always found it easier to support a team from outside the heartland and as london is easiest to get to, its has been my team since i started watching the sport.

 

What im wondering is what area of london has the most RL teams and fans, surely this is the area that should be targeted to set up the new ground and establish a proper fan base again (the broncos did use to get solid crowds when branson owned them????)

 

Whats the dream for london broncos??, for me is the own 10k ground or shared ownership ground with a football club. A strong supports base and a strong underage. Up until the start of this season didnt the broncos have a strong underage??

 

Also ive read a few posts on here about people against london and expansion in general, i dont get the opposition to this surely if the game dont expands it dies, already the SL has no real sponser. So to leave it as heartland clubs the money would dry up.

 

For me for expansion to work in a new area, it need good marketing, money behind it and a winning team over a solid period to establish local support eg. Melbornue storm...NRL, State Francis, Racing Metro....Rugby Union, PSG...Football.

 

sorry for my ignorance but id be interested in your taughts and would love an SL team in ireland(a long way off unfortunatly)

 

 



#2 Bob8

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 09:17 PM

London have to find a niche.  Traditionally, that would be a geographical niche, but the smarter people will have noticed that all those niches are gone.

 

Therefore, it has to be done completely differently.  The traditional route is already sewn up, but there is a route in.  Antipodeans can be targeted, but not expected to come to a game because they are desperate to look down on a league they look down on.  Internations have grown well by targeting ex-pats, getting posh bars to split profits at evenings they arrange and Broncos could do the same (most Aussies in London are rich kids rather than the average 20-year old). 

 

Roller derby have marketed themselves as an extreme alternative sport, to appeal to the extreme alternative hipster market. London Broncos can do the same.  If that sounds absurd, then they can continue trying to target soccer fans who have not found a a club despite there are dozens in London (yet hoping them stumble across the Broncos).  

 

It can work, but not by doing what has already been done with more backing and better.  They have to be different. 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#3 Henson Park Old Firm

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:03 PM

One thing is that London needs to find a permanent home, preferably I would like it to be owned by the RFL and partly by the club.

Also I think they should employee someone who ran or had dealings with the Melbourne Storm, as they would have a good understanding on how to make a club successful in a non rugby league market. And finally if London did have there own stadium I think the head office of London Rugby League (www.londonrl.com)  should be station there also to help promote the club and the club help promote the amateur/grass roots level.



#4 bewareshadows

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 07:20 AM

One thing is that London needs to find a permanent home, preferably I would like it to be owned by the RFL and partly by the club.

Also I think they should employee someone who ran or had dealings with the Melbourne Storm, as they would have a good understanding on how to make a club successful in a non rugby league market. And finally if London did have there own stadium I think the head office of London Rugby League (www.londonrl.com)  should be station there also to help promote the club and the club help promote the amateur/grass roots level.

 

 

I think cost in moving the head office would be an issue. Office space, redundancies for those who can't move.  It would soon eat through any money.  The concept is fine but practically it would be difficult.  Maybe easier just to move a marketing department down to the south as a starter.


Super League the only place in the world where people still believe that less competitors and a closed market to new competition will improve the quality of the product.

Even the Chinese and the Cubans gave up on these marxist principles years ago.


SL with a reduced number of competitors and a closed market = North Korea.

#5 bewareshadows

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 07:24 AM

Hi im new to the forum and relatively new to rugby league. As a new fan to the sport and being from ireland ive always found it easier to support a team from outside the heartland and as london is easiest to get to, its has been my team since i started watching the sport.

 

What im wondering is what area of london has the most RL teams and fans, surely this is the area that should be targeted to set up the new ground and establish a proper fan base again (the broncos did use to get solid crowds when branson owned them????)

 

Whats the dream for london broncos??, for me is the own 10k ground or shared ownership ground with a football club. A strong supports base and a strong underage. Up until the start of this season didnt the broncos have a strong underage??

 

Also ive read a few posts on here about people against london and expansion in general, i dont get the opposition to this surely if the game dont expands it dies, already the SL has no real sponser. So to leave it as heartland clubs the money would dry up.

 

For me for expansion to work in a new area, it need good marketing, money behind it and a winning team over a solid period to establish local support eg. Melbornue storm...NRL, State Francis, Racing Metro....Rugby Union, PSG...Football.

 

sorry for my ignorance but id be interested in your taughts and would love an SL team in ireland(a long way off unfortunatly)

 

 

In response to the OP.

 

My downer on  London is nothing to do with location.  In a way I don't have a downer on them as I agree they have never been relegated or lost a licence/franchise.

My only downer is that the current London team seem to be a negative rather than a positive to SL.

 

6-7 years ago.  I had hopes but the constant moves, name changes and drip drip drip away of fans reflects badly on the rest of the league.  It's one thing for people to say we are a northern sport. But the current London team can be used as a practical example of RL not being able to get out of the heartlands.

 

I'm not certain what went wrong, but the constant moving can't be helping.


Super League the only place in the world where people still believe that less competitors and a closed market to new competition will improve the quality of the product.

Even the Chinese and the Cubans gave up on these marxist principles years ago.


SL with a reduced number of competitors and a closed market = North Korea.

#6 Ackroman

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:02 AM

Hi im new to the forum and relatively new to rugby league. As a new fan to the sport and being from ireland ive always found it easier to support a team from outside the heartland and as london is easiest to get to, its has been my team since i started watching the sport.

 

What im wondering is what area of london has the most RL teams and fans, surely this is the area that should be targeted to set up the new ground and establish a proper fan base again (the broncos did use to get solid crowds when branson owned them????)

 

Whats the dream for london broncos??, for me is the own 10k ground or shared ownership ground with a football club. A strong supports base and a strong underage. Up until the start of this season didnt the broncos have a strong underage??

 

Also ive read a few posts on here about people against london and expansion in general, i dont get the opposition to this surely if the game dont expands it dies, already the SL has no real sponser. So to leave it as heartland clubs the money would dry up.

 

For me for expansion to work in a new area, it need good marketing, money behind it and a winning team over a solid period to establish local support eg. Melbornue storm...NRL, State Francis, Racing Metro....Rugby Union, PSG...Football.

 

sorry for my ignorance but id be interested in your TAUGHTS and would love an SL team in ireland(a long way off unfortunatly)

 

Irish eh?


Edited by Ackroman, 21 December 2013 - 09:03 AM.


#7 southstand loiner

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:37 AM

to answer your question I think the main playing areas for rugby league in the London area are in the east and north of London and further out in those directions which is one reason a move to  the stoop in west London was always doomed to failure

.  remember London is a vast area  not like some little town in Lancashire so transport problems getting from east to west are rather big  by road or underground .

 

the new ground is in north London and apart from been easier to reach from the north of England is much closer to what I would have thought were areas it could draw support from  so even with a poor team I wouldn't be surprised if there crowds went up a bit next season


ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#8 Bob8

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:53 AM

There is no magical area of London that has a niche for a rugby league team.  It will be useful to be in one place, but it makes no difference where that is.  It is not 1913, there is no area that is short of a sports team.  RU thought in traditional terms to and had to move out.  Thick differently or move to Crawley.

 

They need to find a social group in London, who can be drawn to the game.  A social group that consists of 1% of the population of the London region gives you 100,000 people, which is plenty.  The NFL are not targetting the Wembley area, they are targeting USA-heads who love big occasions (which is why they did not support the Monarchs). 

 

Rugby league is not mainstream in London or any area of London, they must accept they are an alternative scene and market accordingly. 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#9 southstand loiner

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 02:40 PM

true rugby league  is not mainstream  but it does have areas with a number of teams  and these tend to be in the east and north of London  so to have the senior team in west London with a long commute  was not really a wise move  .

  think back to when London played at the valley at Charlton and had good crowds  in an area that had a number of community clubs  now that is the kind of area that need to be targeted  a working class area  that's not be totally gentrified  and with good transport links   . 

I recon at last they are going to the right area to get it right  now what they need is support not people endlessly slagging them off for getting crowds similar to a badly preforming Salford 


ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#10 Bob8

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 03:40 PM

true rugby league  is not mainstream  but it does have areas with a number of teams  and these tend to be in the east and north of London  so to have the senior team in west London with a long commute  was not really a wise move  .

  think back to when London played at the valley at Charlton and had good crowds  in an area that had a number of community clubs  now that is the kind of area that need to be targeted  a working class area  that's not be totally gentrified  and with good transport links   . 

I recon at last they are going to the right area to get it right  now what they need is support not people endlessly slagging them off for getting crowds similar to a badly preforming Salford 

It would be good to stay in one area, but I do not think there is any area of London which is a good source for new fans.  People have to identify with a club and I do not see how that can have a locality basis.  As a Leeds fan, would you say Headingley is a great source of fans?


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#11 southstand loiner

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 04:32 PM

there may not be a good area but some are better than others and with more clubs in certain areas and strong working class roots of a large number of the population the new base is vastly different to twickenham  which had no real rugby league community clubs and is seen as a more upper middle class area  that would not be a natural fit with rugby league.

 

as a leeds fan I would say the headingley area has a small leeds fanbase but within a few miles of it there are major areas that are not only rugby league playing but leeds supporting with  the likes of milford, queens ,stanningley ect playing  less than 15 mins away  and even my area of east leeds  witihin a 25 min bus journey . I doubt theres an area of leeds that people  cant get to headingley by car in around 30 mins. traffic congestion permitting of course .  then of course theres over 100 years of tradition that draws generations of leeds fans to one of the only two surviving founding grounds of rugby league 3 if you count widnes as been one

 

don't make the mistake of thinking of London in the same way as of any northern city in terms or size or ease of travel  its easier to get from leeds to Oldham than to get from  south east London to west London .


ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#12 gutterfax

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:22 PM

In 2012, London Broncos spent 200,000 on Marketing. Their Landlords spent 1,750,000.

 

It doesn't matter what they play, how they play it, if the grounds a ###### hole or impossible to get to......if you don't ###### tell anyone you're playing then don't be surprised when you don't get any customers.



#13 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:19 PM

In 2012, London Broncos spent 200,000 on Marketing. Their Landlords spent 1,750,000.

It doesn't matter what they play, how they play it, if the grounds a ###### hole or impossible to get to......if you don't ###### tell anyone you're playing then don't be surprised when you don't get any customers.


My gast is flabbered that London spent so much. One thing that pains me is that Quins RU have got my email address through the Broncos and are emailing me virtually every day with news. However I get zip from the Broncos

#14 Northern Sol

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:08 PM

Hi im new to the forum and relatively new to rugby league. As a new fan to the sport and being from ireland ive always found it easier to support a team from outside the heartland and as london is easiest to get to, its has been my team since i started watching the sport.

 

What im wondering is what area of london has the most RL teams and fans, surely this is the area that should be targeted to set up the new ground and establish a proper fan base again (the broncos did use to get solid crowds when branson owned them????)

 

Whats the dream for london broncos??, for me is the own 10k ground or shared ownership ground with a football club. A strong supports base and a strong underage. Up until the start of this season didnt the broncos have a strong underage??

 

Also ive read a few posts on here about people against london and expansion in general, i dont get the opposition to this surely if the game dont expands it dies, already the SL has no real sponser. So to leave it as heartland clubs the money would dry up.

 

For me for expansion to work in a new area, it need good marketing, money behind it and a winning team over a solid period to establish local support eg. Melbornue storm...NRL, State Francis, Racing Metro....Rugby Union, PSG...Football.

 

sorry for my ignorance but id be interested in your taughts and would love an SL team in ireland(a long way off unfortunatly)

Very few people are genuinely against expansion. Very many are against the way that expansion has been done, largely because it has had very, very limited success  It suits the interests of some very strange people to cast opposition to failed policies as opposition to expansion. Don't go down that route.


Edited by Northern Sol, 21 December 2013 - 09:08 PM.


#15 Northern Sol

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:11 PM

there may not be a good area but some are better than others and with more clubs in certain areas and strong working class roots of a large number of the population the new base is vastly different to twickenham  which had no real rugby league community clubs and is seen as a more upper middle class area  that would not be a natural fit with rugby league.

 

I disagree that there is a natural fit for RL anywhere. RL is popular with working class people more than upper middle through accident of history.



#16 southstand loiner

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:16 PM

depends if you judge success only in terms of a top notch super league team I suppose  in which case no its not been that good .

 

on the other hand if judged by the structures below that then its been a big success with the number of community clubs and young players coming through for a relatively small amount of money spent by the rfl .

 

lets all just hope the broncos can make a go of it at there new home


ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#17 EastLondonMike

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:18 PM

I'd say traditionally South London has been the best area in London for amateur teams and successfully producing people with ability, and not justin the field, but at the moment it seems to be any even share around London and the surrounding areas.

Personally i'd prefer east London as a base, partly for selfish reasons, but also due to the presence of Stratford and the media outlets who will soon be moving into what was the area housing the Olympic village. Its also pretty accessible to north, south and west London, plus only 10-15 minutes from the M11 and A406.

 

As has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread and countless times previously by many posters, if you don't tell people games are being played, people won't know its there to be enjoyed. The London Broncos/Quins RL club always seemed to just think people would turn up automatically without having to do any real promotion. I think they might have done a bit of promo in the local paper in Twickenham on occasion, and the occasional ad in the evening standard but thats generally about it (as far as a I can recall).

 

Combine that with a pretty awful performance on the pitch for the last 5-6 years (if not longer) and a lack of suitable communication from the club and the fans and we find ourselves in a situation where what fans there were have been turned off, and no one doing anything to attract new fans.

 

For the Broncos to succeed they need a Koukash, nothing else will turn things around sufficiently. they need money throwing at them by someone with business sense, intelligence, a willingness to engage with press/media and a desire to succeed in doing so.


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#18 southstand loiner

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:20 PM

rugby league will always feel more at home in its natural working class environment than anywere else and if we look at the players who have come through in the London area they are of course just about all working class which is hardly suprising 


ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#19 Northern Sol

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:16 PM

rugby league will always feel more at home in its natural working class environment than anywere else and if we look at the players who have come through in the London area they are of course just about all working class which is hardly suprising 

Nah, it's purely a historical accident that it was ever a working class sport. I'd imagine that many people in 1907 would argue that RL was more naturally at home in Yorkshire than in Sydney.

 

Most professional RL players are working class but so are professional soccer players. I'm not sure that class stereotypes get dragged out quite so often for soccer.



#20 Northern Sol

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:17 PM

depends if you judge success only in terms of a top notch super league team I suppose  in which case no its not been that good .

 

on the other hand if judged by the structures below that then its been a big success with the number of community clubs and young players coming through for a relatively small amount of money spent by the rfl .

 

lets all just hope the broncos can make a go of it at there new home

There are very few people that would get upset about the grassroots expansion outside the heartlands. Mainly because it's been pretty successful.






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