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London Broncos and future expansion


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#61 willy

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:16 PM

What holds RL back is its outdated view of itself and its backwards view of the sort of person that would enjoy it

 

The RLWC showed there is an appetite for it outside the flat cap northern enclaves of working classishness!

 

But as ever no one wants to support a losing team, or one that struggles, or one that comes in for so much stick from others within it

 

Geographically we have a large spread across the UK at semi pro level. That needs feeding

 

Its no accident that there are Romanian/polish/Nigerian etc kids killing it in the London academy - absolutely no baggage, don't care about where they play, nothing to do with the good ol british preoccupation with the class system, they just want to play a fast exciting sport

 

So please stop eulogising/patronising etc the London area like it is even remotely the same as anywhere in the north, it isn't.

 

We want success in London? Let London drive it. The problem with that of course is a Londoners priorities making a successful team in a London environment will be a lot different to that in the hinterlands of the Midlands and the North and sadly requires a lot of money and media presence, which don't actually go hand in hand but to a Northern audience seem to

 

The Money because its twice as expensive, the media because large sports concerns across London (soccer etc) blanket the media every single hour of every single day.

 

In my experience Londoners LIKE RUGBY LEAGUE

 

They respond to it, they appreciate it, they even admire it but it has no social or environmental context in their day to day lives

 

Media and Money all else follows

 

Grass roots development? Community ownership?

 

Outdated and outmoded in a city like London where the big sports clubs have overdrafts that dwarf the whole income of RL in one team alone. There is no such thing as 'local' development there.Name one London team of any sport in the spotlight that has 90% London born players?

 

RL should play to its strengths, it is egalitarian in nature, always has been, a mongrel with a rebel spirit. On the frontline of expansion even more so than PNG or Samoa or the USA or Canada, London should be a flagship outpost and should always have had dispensation to sign above the salary cap with extra income from the RFL

 

Same as half the teams in the USA football leagues when the franchises move geographical locations and the top Aussie RL side in the NRL outside of the East coast or the Super 14 RU teams etc etc

 

A level playing field is level only if the context is the same for each club, it isn't ever that simple, never was, and you reap what you sew.

 

London was not allowed to invest properly when it could, now it cant it never will unless the cap can be altered to assist and hopefully another money bags hits the scene to allow this to happen. Otherwise we are lucky to have a London team with no ground of its own, no money and no way to access a level playing field in the first place.



#62 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:30 PM

Spot on Willy,

 

It was mentioned in the Broncos to Barnet thread but it remains one of the many missed opportunities in trying to get greater spectator involvement from the BME community. Other sports are beginning to have more BME spectators. London only ever had three regular BME attenders, one was an ex-Wigan fan, and one is part of the Loyal and Loud.. Other transplanted sports such as American Football get a BME audience in attendance in this country. London had more BME academy players on the field than spectators. Perhaps league has too much northern "baggage" attached ?  

 

The other misconception was that you needed to cater to soccer fans, who unsurprisngly - as has been demonstrated on this board inadvertantly by Sussex RL fan after Wembley and during the failed Free ticket imbrolongo - once the soccer season starts watch er. soccer. There was no understanding that League attracted the non-traditional sports fan who in watching sports like London Knights Ice Hockey already marched to a different drum beat so to speak. Next season Barnet Broncos marketing will be done (for a fee) by Barnet FC - No prizes for guessing their target audience.

 

Two markets the BME community and the non-traditional sports fans looking for a "new" sport without baggage that was exciting, relatively inexpensive and Family Friendly. Two Markets totally ignored during the Broncos existence. Yet key in establishing a niche sport in the Capital.

 

The "problem" of London Rugby League is northerners pursuing a northern solution to a southern problem.locked in the mental prison of the northern world view


I am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths


 

 

David Hughes to Ian Lenagan Page 134 - A Pastel Revolution - Fletcher and Gordas - 2006

 

Being an outsider, it is easiest to see what is wrong with the sport. It's a fantastic sport that has been undersold and under-marketed  because people who run it probably want to keep it the way it is

 

 

Dr Marwan Koukash to Joanthan Lieu. Sunday Telegraph 9th March 2014

 

 


#63 bbfaz

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:51 PM

There's no such thing as the working, middle and upper classes anymore. It's the 21st century not 1950. The traditional working class was made up of manual workers and labourers in manufacturing. Most of the manufacturing has long since left these shores and what's left is predominantly done by machines. Manual workers in terms of tradesmen are generally well paid jobs these days in terms of electricians, plumbers etc. so can you please stop using outdated notions

 

Of course there is.  There's still the old school tie brigade, scratching each other's backs and keeping money amongst themselves, there's still people who make a nice living owning businesses and there's still people who get dicked by the man.  It's just their jobs have changed.  I know what living hand to mouth whilst having a supposedly-prestigious office job is like.  Maybe the terms are outdated but the roles are the same as they were.


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#64 Northern Sol

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:47 PM

Of course there is.  There's still the old school tie brigade, scratching each other's backs and keeping money amongst themselves, there's still people who make a nice living owning businesses and there's still people who get dicked by the man.  It's just their jobs have changed.  I know what living hand to mouth whilst having a supposedly-prestigious office job is like.  Maybe the terms are outdated but the roles are the same as they were.

Having an office job but living hand-to-mouth epitomises the death of the traditional British class system.



#65 Bob8

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:01 AM

Having an office job but living hand-to-mouth epitomises the death of the traditional British class system.

Or that it has a different form and that you can have a working class office job, as many do.  There were never any shortage of working class trades that thought themselves one up from the other working class trades.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#66 Northern Sol

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:35 AM

Or that it has a different form and that you can have a working class office job, as many do.  There were never any shortage of working class trades that thought themselves one up from the other working class trades.

Yeah but the old class system was based on jobs that required literacy and those that did not.

 

Now that having a degree is no big deal and no guarantee of a good job then it makes sense to talk about working class office jobs and perhaps about middle class manual jobs.



#67 jpmc

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:51 AM

Its unfortunate but in the last 30 or 40 years i think an underclass has replaced the working class

#68 bbfaz

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

Well, social systems and aspiration worked. It's now not about being literate or not. It is said that call centres are the new factories. Not sure it's true or not but without multi-generational support, my view is that hardcore fans have to be made from casual fans. The best way to do this is by having the best possible matchday experience, marketing to people who have disposable income and having a winning team.

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#69 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 09:19 PM

Its unfortunate but in the last 30 or 40 years i think an underclass has replaced the working class


You mean a working class ((i.e. People who work) and underclass (people growing exponentially who've never worked a day in their lives - and neither have their parents)

#70 gutterfax

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 06:57 PM

There is no stereotypical Lonson RL Fan.

 

I went to a RU playing Boarding School in Ireland, played Gaelic Football for my county, had trials at Luton Town FC, played Union for The Exiles in the 1980's, own a number of properties around the world, run my own marketing company and live in New Zealand yet I still get up at 3am to listen to BBC Commentary of London Broncos games. I would be considered upper middle class by those that subscribe to such ######.....

 

London Broncos DO NOT NEED TO APPEAL to any particular class of person...they need to appeal to sports fans. I always considered RL a sport that I would watch on the BBC in the Challenge Cup...I never really gave it a second thought until I went to a game. Even then, I lived 30 feet from Griffin Park but it took a workmate to drag me to a game....the club never leafleted me......the rest as they say, is history!



#71 henage

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:45 PM

great post above.



#72 bbfaz

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:04 AM

Unrealistic though. They need to sell seats, which they haven't done successfully for years. As has been pointed out, they need crowds of 10,000 to be financially viable and that requires a five year plan to raise standards across the board and, you know, actually play in a 10,000+ seat stadium.

Sports marketing people of many different backgrounds need a target, somebody they can market to. We can say these people are a waste of time but this is what you need in this city and in this sort of marketplace. Get somebody to bring in the three types of heat; young urban professionals, families and corporates.

I read what was said, it was just irrelevant.

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#73 The Future is League

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 11:54 AM

There is no stereotypical Lonson RL Fan.

 

I went to a RU playing Boarding School in Ireland, played Gaelic Football for my county, had trials at Luton Town FC, played Union for The Exiles in the 1980's, own a number of properties around the world, run my own marketing company and live in New Zealand yet I still get up at 3am to listen to BBC Commentary of London Broncos games. I would be considered upper middle class by those that subscribe to such ######.....

 

London Broncos DO NOT NEED TO APPEAL to any particular class of person...they need to appeal to sports fans. I always considered RL a sport that I would watch on the BBC in the Challenge Cup...I never really gave it a second thought until I went to a game. Even then, I lived 30 feet from Griffin Park but it took a workmate to drag me to a game....the club never leafleted me......the rest as they say, is history!

It really amazing to me how London and Salford have been poorly marketed over many years. I think with the good Doctor in charge at Salford we should see match day games properly marketed. As for London i have made suggestions to the club on what IMO might help them get better crowds as i use to go and watch them them when i lived in London.  I haven't had a return email from them and considering that was at least 3 years ago i know i won't be getting one now.


Edited by The Future is League, 29 December 2013 - 11:55 AM.


#74 gutterfax

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 10:23 PM

London Broncos spent a total of 320,000 on Marketing (including 98k in marketing wages) in 2012, the year they re-launched as the London Broncos after the confusion over what game they played drove thousands of fans away   :lol:. The same season, they spent another 200k on hiring the Stoop and 530k on administration costs.

 

Nobody seems to know where the 220k in Marketing spend went, but it did deliver an 8% DROP in attendances, including (at the time) the lowest ever SL gates for the visits of:

Catalan, Salford, HKR, Widnes and Leeds with the 2nd lowest ever for Castleford, Warrington and Bradford.

 

200k wasn't enough and believe me, the bloke at Barnet isn't going to spend anything close to that!



#75 The Future is League

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 07:24 AM

London Broncos spent a total of 320,000 on Marketing (including 98k in marketing wages) in 2012, the year they re-launched as the London Broncos after the confusion over what game they played drove thousands of fans away   :lol:. The same season, they spent another 200k on hiring the Stoop and 530k on administration costs.

 

Nobody seems to know where the 220k in Marketing spend went, but it did deliver an 8% DROP in attendances, including (at the time) the lowest ever SL gates for the visits of:

Catalan, Salford, HKR, Widnes and Leeds with the 2nd lowest ever for Castleford, Warrington and Bradford.

 

200k wasn't enough and believe me, the bloke at Barnet isn't going to spend anything close to that!

Am i wrong in thinking that the starting point for match day promotion is to let the sporting public know, what day you are playing and against whom and the KO time and admission prices?

Now even a school child could make up a poster for home games with this imformation on it and get X amount prinited and ask for volunteers to distribute them via homes and business's. Now I'm not saying it will have people crushing down the gates to get in on match day, but at least in would be a start.



#76 tigersfan

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:42 PM

Interesting reading the class based rubbish on here. The class system only really exists in the minds of people who want it to. Whoever wrote that the middle classes look down on rugby league are wrong on two counts
- working or middle class is pretty much impossible to objectively define
- those who don't watch RL don't look down on it, they don't really know it exists and don't care.

Most crowds in both codes are made up of people who have grown up with their respective games. I mainly watch RU because it's what I played. If I had gone to school in Wigan I would mainly watch RL. Logic would say the first thing is to get as many clubs and schools playing. Then get a successful, well funded team, with some stars. Then publicise it

#77 redjonn

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:09 PM

Am i wrong in thinking that the starting point for match day promotion is to let the sporting public know, what day you are playing and against whom and the KO time and admission prices?

Now even a school child could make up a poster for home games with this imformation on it and get X amount prinited and ask for volunteers to distribute them via homes and business's. Now I'm not saying it will have people crushing down the gates to get in on match day, but at least in would be a start.

you may be correct but i have no idea if the target market where promoted to in the right way - nothing worse than wasting money on the wrong approach to the wrong people. I guess that's where good market analyse comes in.   I guess my point is that they may have done the first part of marketing poorly whilst doing the promotion right but to the wrong target.   No idea and maybe you know or are assuming.  Also maybe they where successful but the first experience of the product was poor and hence nobody bothered going again. For me the game is often great but the overall product is very poor at many grounds I go to but my love for the game overcomes that,  newbe's may expect better overall product and hence don't become regulars.

 

I guess I'm really implying that it may not be so simple as you suggest.



#78 nadera78

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:11 PM

Interesting reading the class based rubbish on here. The class system only really exists in the minds of people who want it to. Whoever wrote that the middle classes look down on rugby league are wrong on two counts
- working or middle class is pretty much impossible to objectively define
- those who don't watch RL don't look down on it, they don't really know it exists and don't care.
Most crowds in both codes are made up of people who have grown up with their respective games. I mainly watch RU because it's what I played. If I had gone to school in Wigan I would mainly watch RL. Logic would say the first thing is to get as many clubs and schools playing. Then get a successful, well funded team, with some stars. Then publicise it


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#79 tigersfan

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:39 PM

And there is the whole problem of RL. What have I written that is derogatory?

#80 Pottsy

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 10:53 AM

Having an office job but living hand-to-mouth epitomises the death of the traditional British class system.


Really? George Orwell described this phenomenon to a tee 80 years ago. It's nothing new.




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