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Muslims refuse to sell alcohol and pork at M&S. Yay or Nay?

muslims islam M&S

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#41 Methven Hornet

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:37 PM

What is the situation with registrars in England when it comes to same-sex marriage? Do staff have the right to exempt themselves from officiating a same-sex marriage if their religion forbids them?


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#42 Northern Sol

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:44 PM

What is the situation with registrars in England when it comes to same-sex marriage? Do staff have the right to exempt themselves from officiating a same-sex marriage if their religion forbids them?

No.



#43 Northern Sol

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:45 PM

And you have evidence that this has happened of course?

The Daily Telegraph do. They cite examples of people working on the till refusing to serve customers.



#44 Trojan

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:11 PM

The Daily Telegraph do. They cite examples of people working on the till refusing to serve customers.

Like the Christian proprietors of a B&B refusing to allow gay couple to share a room say?


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#45 Padge

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:21 PM

I'm just spitballing here, and could be well off (and to be honest, I'm hoping I am!) but could this be a hypothetical situation:

It's against the law to discriminate on terms of religion, including (I believe) in the recruitment process. Could someone whose religion prevents them from handing pork not apply for a job in a butchers, get hired because an employer was afraid they'd be sued for racial discrimination and then spend most of the time doing very little?

 

If the criteria for the job are laid down correctly it should not be a problem. It may be hard to word but not insurmountable.  



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#46 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:36 PM

Living in Bradford, as I have all my life, I have never once been to a shop of any kind here (or anywhere else for that matter) where a member of staff has refused to sell me something because of their religion, suggesting that this isn't really much of a story at all, regardless of the 'policies' each shop may have in place.

And I'm sure we would all like that state of affairs to continue.

 

The fact that you've never experienced this sort of thing until now, though, is precisely why this is a story, because Marks & Spencer seem to be introducing a rule (if we can believe the news) whereby someone could be on a till but refuse to serve you.

 

So for the first time in your life there is a possibility, if you shop at M & S in their food department, that you may indeed be told to search for another checkout operator to serve you because the operator at the nearest checkout doesn't want to put your pork sandwich into your carrier bag.

 

It sounds too ridiculous to be true, and I hope it is.

 

It's worth pointing out that there is nothing in the Muslim religion that bans the handling of beer bottles or certain kinds of food, and I would be surprised if most Muslims took any notice of this at all. This sort of decision that M&S have apparently made is almost certainly a bigger burden for their Muslim employees than for anyone else, mainly because there may be some Muslim zealots who demand of their colleagues that they exercise this right, now that they have been given it.

 

My fundamental objection to this is that it is yet another little element that emphasises the separateness of Muslims rather than their integration into the wider community. I don't think it's helpful.



#47 Padge

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:53 PM

We need a law that says religion doesn't have any place in any decision making anywhere.

 

Nobody should be beholding to anybody's fairy beliefs.



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#48 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:15 AM

Just a minor point, you wont be refused service.  You wont be sent to another till. 

 

It will be just the same as when the cashier is under 18 and you buy booze.  A supervisor will come over and do it, and then the cashier carries on.

 

On top of that the number of cases that will happen?

 

Mountains, molehills and agendas....


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#49 Johnoco

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

I have been in a pub tonight run by an Iranian guy. He's a Muslim. He laughed at this story. More importantly he gave me some cider on the house.

#50 Johnoco

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:24 AM

Just a minor point, you wont be refused service. You wont be sent to another till.

It will be just the same as when the cashier is under 18 and you buy booze. A supervisor will come over and do it, and then the cashier carries on.

On top of that the number of cases that will happen?

Mountains, molehills and agendas....

I used to say the same sort of thing pre Rushdie.
That's utterly not the point. If I want to buy a bottle of champagne, then providing the assistant
is of legal age then I should be able to do it. Arguing otherwise is ludicrous. Unless of course we should head down the road of personal discrimination?
Would M&S support a Muslim shop assistant who refused to serve a couple of gay men as it offended their religion?
Well would they? And if not, why not?

#51 JohnM

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:37 AM

I have been in a pub tonight run by an Iranian guy. He's a Muslim. He laughed at this story. More importantly he gave me some cider on the house.


Its a plot to get us all drunk and then impose Sharia law when we are telling people they're our mates and we love 'em.

I'm with Page on this issue.

#52 gingerjon

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:41 AM

Just a minor point, you wont be refused service. You wont be sent to another till.

It will be just the same as when the cashier is under 18 and you buy booze. A supervisor will come over and do it, and then the cashier carries on.

On top of that the number of cases that will happen?

Mountains, molehills and agendas....


The 17 year olds not being able to sell booze annoys me too. I'm a bundle of anger.
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#53 Saint Billinge

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:48 AM

It seems that M@S has apologised, stating that the company's procedure on checkout staff hadn't been adhered to. It's still opened a can of worms considering the backlash. 


Edited by Saint Billinge, 23 December 2013 - 10:02 AM.


#54 Johnoco

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:52 AM

The 17 year olds not being able to sell booze annoys me too. I'm a bundle of anger.

You won't be concerned until they restrict the sale of manbags.

#55 ckn

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:31 AM

M&S change their mind.

 

I know they say no publicity is bad publicity but this one might just be the exception...


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#56 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:41 AM

If a shop sells meat/alcohol then for me ALL the people who work on the tills should be able/want to sell it to a customer. If they have a problem then they should not work on a till but work shelf filling etc. Why should somebody line up and wait 5-10 minutes to be served to then find out the Assistant cant/wont sell them something the shop is selling? Its up to the Shop manager to use his staff properly and if they cant/Wont serve something then tell them they either will need to look for another job or offer them something else to do.



#57 808tone

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:52 AM

Would a load of rubbish as Muslims never have a problem serving alcohol in a restaurant and corner shop.



#58 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

Like the Christian proprietors of a B&B refusing to allow gay couple to share a room say?

I'm not sure why this is aimed at me. I neither own a B and B, nor am I Christian, nor do I have "issues" with gay couples. 



#59 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:59 AM

M&S change their mind.

 

I know they say no publicity is bad publicity but this one might just be the exception...

Good.



#60 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:04 AM

 

My fundamental objection to this is that it is yet another little element that emphasises the separateness of Muslims rather than their integration into the wider community. I don't think it's helpful.

Indeed.

 

We should give no such victories to the nastier minded kind of Muslim. We should not create the right to a "sharia zone" around Muslims where nothing can happen that might offend them.

 

Recently Choudary was shouting about Muslims selling alcohol in Tower Hamlets or they would face lashes. There is a direct link between giving in to extremism in small issues and them being emboldened and taking further liberties.

 

A group of non-Muslims were assaulted by a "sharia patrol" in Tower Hamlets when they refused to stop holding hands near a Mosque.






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