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Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing


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#21 southstand loiner

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 09:51 PM

fine he has a pardon  but really what good does it do .  the guy is dead  it wont bring him back  .

 

just another attempt to rewrite history 


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#22 John Rhino

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 04:14 PM

If someone receives a Royal Pardon, isn't it supposed to mean that they were not guilty of the offence they were convicted of?

 

Timothy Evans, who was hanged in the 1950s for murdering his wife and child, was granted a Royal Pardon when it became clear that he was innocent, and that the Rillington Place murders had been committed by John Christie.

 

Similarly, soldiers who were wrongly court martialled and executed in the FWW for cowardice should receive a Royal Pardon on the same basis.

 

There is another class of criminal offence that Turing and other gay people could be classified as, which are criminal acts that they committed that are later legalised. I'm sure there would be other criminal offences from the past that would also look barbaric to us today.

 

Turing was a genius and was treated appallingly. But then no doubt so were many others who were less intellectually able, and there were other famous people who were convicted of homosexual offences, including the actor John Gielgud.

 

Perhaps there should be a procedure whereby people convicted of crimes that are no longer criminal offences could have their guilt collectively annulled by a subsequent government decree.

 

A lot of people are confused about what this pardon actually means.

 

Firstly it does not mean that the person is now not guilty of the offence. Indeed, the statutory pardon for the 306 soldiers executed in the first world war expressly stated that the pardon did not affect either the conviction or even the validity of the sentence given.  The argument was that it was wrong to impugn the official decisions which led to the executions.  All that the Ministry of Defence did was, as an administrative act, to put a copy of the pardon on each executed soldier’s file.

 

What does a pardon do? It simply removes the consequences of the guilty verdict. In other words it removes the punishment.

 

A pardon is actually intended for the living not the dead. If you are in jail seving 10 years and you are pardoned after a year then you are set free from the punishment. You are still in the eyes of the law guily of the original offence.

 

It is therefore a VERY odd thing to pardon a person dead since 1954. I suspect as usual it a political stunt with the politicians banking on the public thinking it is a "jolly good thing" knowing that they won't have a clue what it actually means.


Edited by John Rhino, 27 December 2013 - 04:19 PM.

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#23 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 07:41 PM

fine he has a pardon  but really what good does it do .  the guy is dead  it wont bring him back  .

 

just another attempt to rewrite history 

How does it rewrite history?

We know what he achieved, what he contributed, what he endured and how he was treated.

In what way has that been altered?


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#24 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 07:43 PM

A lot of people are confused about what this pardon actually means.

 

Firstly it does not mean that the person is now not guilty of the offence. Indeed, the statutory pardon for the 306 soldiers executed in the first world war expressly stated that the pardon did not affect either the conviction or even the validity of the sentence given.  The argument was that it was wrong to impugn the official decisions which led to the executions.  All that the Ministry of Defence did was, as an administrative act, to put a copy of the pardon on each executed soldier’s file.

 

What does a pardon do? It simply removes the consequences of the guilty verdict. In other words it removes the punishment.

 

A pardon is actually intended for the living not the dead. If you are in jail seving 10 years and you are pardoned after a year then you are set free from the punishment. You are still in the eyes of the law guily of the original offence.

 

It is therefore a VERY odd thing to pardon a person dead since 1954. I suspect as usual it a political stunt with the politicians banking on the public thinking it is a "jolly good thing" knowing that they won't have a clue what it actually means.

Well said

If you are pardoned you are forgiven not exonerated

 

I think the problem arises because of the fact that homosexuality was illegal at the time and Turing was 'guilty' of it

Unlike cases where a person hasn't committed the crime, been found guilty and punished.

 

Imho it's good that atonement is being thought about and I believe it's called for and that it should apply to all gay men convicted of this 'offence'


Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 27 December 2013 - 07:50 PM.

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#25 Trojan

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 05:08 PM

We also know that (especially) in the early fifties homosexuals were considered a security risk, given the Burgess and McLean affair involved gay men.  Turing allegedly committed suicide, but he was poisoned  with cyanide, tbh  I wouldn't have a clue where to get hold of any cyanide. There is a strong suspicion that he was assassinated by MI5 or MI6.  Given the revelations about what they were up to (undermining elected British and other governments) I wouldn't be in the least surprised.  

What a way to treat a man who more than many others actually made a positive contribution to our country. As has been said, his work shortened that war, and save thousands (possibly millions) of lives.  Pardon! We should be ashamed of ourselves.


Edited by Trojan, 29 December 2013 - 05:12 PM.

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#26 JohnM

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 07:22 AM

That's a somewhat fanciful view. Poisoned? Really? WE should be ashamed? Well, yes to the extent that the prevailing view at the time did not support a change in the (wholly wrong) law. If WE should be ashamed of anything , I'd go for the nonsense that was the death penalty....which has considerable support on here and in the country but is wholly wrong.

#27 Trojan

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:52 AM

That's a somewhat fanciful view. Poisoned? Really? WE should be ashamed? Well, yes to the extent that the prevailing view at the time did not support a change in the (wholly wrong) law. If WE should be ashamed of anything , I'd go for the nonsense that was the death penalty....which has considerable support on here and in the country but is wholly wrong.

I don't know if he was assassinated or not, but it has been suggested and I wouldn't be surprised given the attitudes of those who ran (run) the security services. As for the attitudes to homosexuality, it's not that long since the Tories introduced Section 28, and I wouldn't be surprised if they get a working majority next time to see them try to reintroduce it.


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