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#61 mmp

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:58 AM

how about this radical idea, with the link up between widnes and crusaders, how about a joint widnes/north wales academy? makes sense to tap the large market in wales.


The point is that there are too many academies and insufficient youngsters playing the game to populate them. So, even if a new market was 'tapped' (ps. the SL clubs are already populating their academies with lads from way outside their own towns...) the sport needs to drastically reduce the number of academies to stop the ongoing damage being done to the junior game as a whole. If, after an extended period of time we can grow the junior game to a level to populate more academies then maybe...but that situation is a long long long way off...
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#62 Viking Warrior

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:22 PM

The point is that there are too many academies and insufficient youngsters playing the game to populate them. So, even if a new market was 'tapped' (ps. the SL clubs are already populating their academies with lads from way outside their own towns...) the sport needs to drastically reduce the number of academies to stop the ongoing damage being done to the junior game as a whole. If, after an extended period of time we can grow the junior game to a level to populate more academies then maybe...but that situation is a long long long way off...

 

 

it would have the double barrelled effect of producing more young talent for crusaders as well. 


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#63 mmp

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:49 PM

it would have the double barrelled effect of producing more young talent for crusaders as well.

From where is this 'young talent' going to come from though!?

The very simple point is that there are not enough youngsters encountering RL, never mind playing RL, to populate the number of academies currently....having academies doesn't actually increase the player pool or develop more kids; indeed, the evidence is that having too many academies reduces the player pool as each academy drains junior rugby to a point where junior rugby outside of the academy structure becomes unsustainable.

The game has to grow the number of kids playing. Until that's done, we need fewer academies...you can list as many pro clubs where kids might end up as you like, but what you cannot do is list the sources of kids to populate the academies...

Edited by mmp, 02 January 2014 - 01:51 PM.

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#64 Davo5

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:55 PM

Maybe we should allow only Leeds/Wigan to have an academy with 40 man squads,play each other every week and at the end of each season the other clubs can fight over the released players.if super league clubs are not allowed an academy the gap in standards between the stronger and weaker teams will increase even wider than they are now

#65 keighley

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:56 PM

From where is this 'young talent' going to come from though!?

The very simple point is that there are not enough youngsters encountering RL, never mind playing RL, to populate the number of academies currently....having academies doesn't actually increase the player pool or develop more kids; indeed, the evidence is that having too many academies reduces the player pool as each academy drains junior rugby to a point where junior rugby outside of the academy structure becomes unsustainable.

The game has to grow the number of kids playing. Until that's done, we need fewer academies...you can list as many pro clubs where kids might end up as you like, but what you cannot do is list the sources of kids to populate the academies...


Smaller numbers of kids paying the game is a major headache for the game. Without players, SL and all levels under that will suffer and inevitably the game will decline in quality.

One of the major benefits from the expansion of both the amateur game and CC1 is the opportunities to access new sources of talent by developing the youth game in these areas.

Even the all powerful NFL has identified a problem in that fewer and fewer American kids are playing American football fuelled, it is thought, because the recent relevations regarding head injuries and brain damage caused by playing the game.

#66 mmp

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 03:34 PM

Maybe we should allow only Leeds/Wigan to have an academy with 40 man squads,play each other every week and at the end of each season the other clubs can fight over the released players.if super league clubs are not allowed an academy the gap in standards between the stronger and weaker teams will increase even wider than they are now


And there is the challenge for the RFL. You've pro clubs (and their fans) making such arguments and then those involved in junior rugby pointing out how current academy structures are crippling junior rugby which will be to the huge detriment to the game in the short term never mind long-term. The RFL have to balance competing asks/views and LEAD the game down a route that best balances all the competing asks whil doing what is right for the sport overall.

My personal view, we'll still have too many academies in the NW and probably Yorks given the number of juniors actually playing...the view of pro clubs or at least their fans (SL and Championship) will be that they want their own academies (and they'd like the sport to centrally fund it please...). Given the sniping at the restructure from lots of different sides, I'd say the RFL might well have moved to a better position for the game as a whole than previously, even if not the perfect system for anyone specifically.
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#67 Pottsy

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 03:36 PM

Maybe we should allow only Leeds/Wigan to have an academy with 40 man squads,play each other every week and at the end of each season the other clubs can fight over the released players.if super league clubs are not allowed an academy the gap in standards between the stronger and weaker teams will increase even wider than they are now


I agree with this argument. Perhaps, if we do need fewer academies, the answer might be to have none of them attached directly to pro clubs.

Perhaps this could even become an extra product that we could sell to TV, albeit with a niche market.

10 'franchises' entirely owned and operated by the RFL?

Just a thought. Perhaps the common sense approach might still be to compromise and permit each of the 12 remaining super league sides to operate academies.

#68 Davo5

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:45 PM

I still think the scholarship/U18/U20 system was the way to go and after watching my son playing with a group of very talented BARLA U17s last year the majority of who were released from super league clubs when the system changed ,I think clubs are discarding players too early at 16/17 years old,remember Sam Tompkins was only a T&C player at Wigan academy.

#69 yipyee

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:08 PM

The RFL could take youth development out of club's hands, they could control all academy's then have a draft each year, worst clubs get first pick, money bags clubs could 'buy' draft spots, so clubs in trouble could sell all draft choices and have an instant financial boost.....

How would this be funded? Well a chunk of the sky contract plus any available grants,

Also a nominal fee could be passed for each player earning a pro contract to the community club that produced the player.....

#70 Viking Warrior

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:22 AM

heard a very disturbing rumour last night that the cumbrian junior leagues is in a state of collapse, apparently clubs are having to apply to join other leagues to keep going. if this is true then it is a very sad state of affairs considering that the rfl are once again tinkering with the academy structures...


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#71 mmp

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:52 AM

heard a very disturbing rumour last night that the cumbrian junior leagues is in a state of collapse, apparently clubs are having to apply to join other leagues to keep going. if this is true then it is a very sad state of affairs considering that the rfl are once again tinkering with the academy structures...


The 'tinkering' as you call it is BECAUSE of the detrimental effect the academy structure has been having on junior rugby. Your post makes the point perfectly...the sport needed to reform the structures. There were too many academies creating too much of a drain on junior rugby making junior rugby less and less sustainable. It's a good job the RFL are 'tinkering'!

Edited by mmp, 03 January 2014 - 11:53 AM.

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#72 Bomb Jack

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:03 PM

I thought one of the reasons the change to Summer Rugby happened all those years ago was done to benefit the Juniors playing the game?

 

It was said it would be easier to entice yougsters to the Sport if they're not freezing their nuts off every weekend on the pitch.


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#73 LordCharles

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:29 PM

I thought one of the reasons the change to Summer Rugby happened all those years ago was done to benefit the Juniors playing the game?

 

It was said it would be easier to entice yougsters to the Sport if they're not freezing their nuts off every weekend on the pitch.

 

The amateur game has thrived since the switch to Summer, participation is up and all is well from behind the rose tinted spectacles!


Edited by LordCharles, 03 January 2014 - 06:29 PM.


#74 mmp

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:47 PM

I thought one of the reasons the change to Summer Rugby happened all those years ago was done to benefit the Juniors playing the game?
 
It was said it would be easier to entice yougsters to the Sport if they're not freezing their nuts off every weekend on the pitch.


There is a very particular issue as kids reach the ages 14 through 18 which isn't about them being enticed, it's about keeping them, and its not unique to RL. Drop off rates in all sport amongst mid to late teens is a massive issue...boys (in the case of RL) tend to stumble upon other distractions. That's why academies were additionally damaging because at the very time teams start to struggle to retain kids, way too many were being pulled out of the junior game and into academies.

RU (steadfastly winter) has had to restructure its leagues in the NW across these age ranges because of drop off rates impacting on the sides able to play.
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#75 Defender

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:43 AM

I know it is an old link 2012 but if you go on here is actually shows a decrease in RL participation in the NW and then if you read the RU thread it actually shows an increase in only one area the NW, RU as a whole was also down especially in the midlands


Sports Participation Summary April 2011 – April 2012
Sport England – Active People Survey 6

#76 bowes

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 10:33 PM

The Under 19s has 13 teams in 2014, the 13 English Super League teams

 

The 10 teams may be referring to the Championship Under 20s? http://keighleycouga...xtures-results/

 

There's also planned a Championship south Under 19 with names I've heard mentioned being Scorpions, Hemel, Skolars, Oxford, All Golds and Coventry Bears (though not sure All Golds would be entering this and U20?). Not sure if the lineup is finalised






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