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Food banks


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134 replies to this topic

#121 Saint Billinge

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:39 PM

Cobblers, I go for the "jesus died for his own sins not mine" school of thinking. I had religion drilled into me by nuns and priests as a kid and still think they are the lowest form of life.

 

Religion says "be good, don't rock the boat in this life and you'll be rewarded in the next" I have absolutely no gratitude towards christianity at all and furthermore don't feel a bit guilty about it.

 

Obviously Phil you have had your own nasty experience in life over religion, but don't tar every religious person the same. Having run away from a violent, alcoholic father and who went on to murder a baby from a second marriage, my two aunties as well as two grandparents took six of us in for over 13 years. Both aunties were religious but had hearts of gold towards everyone. I would go as far to say that my auntie Ivy was one in a million, never ever complaining while giving her all to family, friends and Girl Guides. Even a car accident that crushed both legs didn't stop her helping others, even to hobbling 400 yards to the local shops to shop for her elderly neighbours. An angel in every sense and never ever dictated to us about her religious beliefs. A truly amazing generous person and loved by all. Today, I still tend to their graves in sincere gratitude. What might have been otherwise as our family could have been split up? 


Edited by Saint Billinge, 03 January 2014 - 09:44 PM.

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#122 Johnoco

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:46 PM

Because, whether you agree with it or not, most drug taking is illegal and in the case of highly addictive drugs like Heroin and crack is a major contributor to crime. Last I looked smoking, although highly addictive and pretty unpleasant is not illegal and as far as I'm aware is not a major contributor to street crime.

There has just been a strong vein of self-righteousness running through this thread and I still think its a ###### major scandal that in 2014 some people are having to rely on charity run food banks to get a meal, whether they smoke or not is by the by to me. And I certainly don't need lectures on christian morality to justify the status quo.

I never mentioned street crime nor do I look at it from a religious point of view. I just happen to think that if you spend money allocated to food or clothing for your children on your own personal gratification then you are a selfish waster.

And I don't even mean 'we've got the shopping in and have a few quid left. .I will buy some fags' I mean purposely thinking 'my cigs/booze come first then let's see what is left'

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#123 Bob8

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:49 PM

What's worse, the Sally army giving a homeless tramp warm food and a bed albeit with a religious slant or George Orwell doing absolutely FA except write terrible books and pretending to be working class for a bit in order to research a pompous book? I back the Sally Army here personally.

I have a slight issue with people who slagged of Mother Theresa for her religious acts from a self-righteous position.  Most people I have met volunteering at such places are religious (even those who are not overt about it).


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#124 Bob8

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:51 PM

I think I might be the only person on this thread who has managed to disagree with everyone.  Do I win a prize?


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#125 Saintslass

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:54 PM

There has just been a strong vein of self-righteousness running through this thread and I still think its a ###### major scandal that in 2014 some people are having to rely on charity run food banks to get a meal, whether they smoke or not is by the by to me. And I certainly don't need lectures on christian morality to justify the status quo.

I disagree that there has been a 'strong vein of self-righteousness' running through this thread.  All that has happened is that a few posters, including myself, have questioned - and rightly IMO - the priorities of parents towards their children when money is tight.  I personally call that responsibility.  Parents do have responsibility for and over their children.  Parenting is supposed to be sacrificial.  That means putting the children's needs before your own.  And the needs for food, water, clothing and shelter are primary needs and should never be compromised.  That isn't to say that parents should not relax or have treats but surely such things should be with what is left over rather than as a priority? 

 

Likewise there were no lectures on Christian morality; just the valid point that people of faith have been supporting those in need in this country for centuries, way before the state got involved.  That doesn't discount the reality of abuse within faith communities.  There is abuse wherever you put human beings together.  There have been numerous stories of abuse within state sector provision in recent years.  Where there is abuse, or neglect, or lack of responsibility towards dependents (whether young, old, disabled or able bodied), there should be accountability.  That is equally the case for faith organisations as it is for the state - and for parents/carers.



#126 Phil

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:01 PM

Obviously Phil you have had your own nasty experience in life over religion, but don't tar every religious person the same. Having run away from a violent, alcoholic father and who went on to murder a baby from a second marriage, my two aunties as well as two grandparents took six of us in for over 13 years. Both aunties were religious but had hearts of gold towards everyone. I would go as far to say that my auntie Ivy was one in a million, never ever complaining while giving her all to family, friends and Girl Guides. Even a car accident that crushed both legs didn't stop her helping others, even to hobbling 400 yards to the local shops to shop for her elderly neighbours. An angel in every sense and never ever dictated to us about her religious beliefs. A truly amazing generous person and loved by all. Today, I still tend to their graves in sincere gratitude. What might have been otherwise as our family could have been split up? 

 

 

She sounds like a wonderful person and the line "never ever dictated to us about her religious beliefs" is the defining one to me. The ones who do dictate belief are the self-righteous hypocrites I've no time for.


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#127 Phil

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:02 PM

I disagree that there has been a 'strong vein of self-righteousness' running through this thread.  All that has happened is that a few posters, including myself, have questioned - and rightly IMO - the priorities of parents towards their children when money is tight.  I personally call that responsibility.  Parents do have responsibility for and over their children.  Parenting is supposed to be sacrificial.  That means putting the children's needs before your own.  And the needs for food, water, clothing and shelter are primary needs and should never be compromised.  That isn't to say that parents should not relax or have treats but surely such things should be with what is left over rather than as a priority? 

 

Likewise there were no lectures on Christian morality; just the valid point that people of faith have been supporting those in need in this country for centuries, way before the state got involved.  That doesn't discount the reality of abuse within faith communities.  There is abuse wherever you put human beings together.  There have been numerous stories of abuse within state sector provision in recent years.  Where there is abuse, or neglect, or lack of responsibility towards dependents (whether young, old, disabled or able bodied), there should be accountability.  That is equally the case for faith organisations as it is for the state - and for parents/carers.

 

 

Oh thanks I don't feel at all patronised.


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#128 Saintslass

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:04 PM

Oh thanks I don't feel at all patronised.

What you feel is beyond my control I'm afraid.  I was simply countering what you said.



#129 Johnoco

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 12:10 AM

She sounds like a wonderful person and the line "never ever dictated to us about her religious beliefs" is the defining one to me. The ones who do dictate belief are the self-righteous hypocrites I've no time for.

Why does it make them hypocrites for believing in certain things?
Let's assume a convent or monastery has a soup kitchen (as virtually all of them do) but they insist that nobody gets a meal if they are passed out of their head and/or being aggressive. Isn't the onus on the hungry person to accept their charity and behave accordingly or not. Either way I don't see how it makes them hypocrites.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#130 Wolford6

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 02:49 AM

I think I might be the only person on this thread who has managed to disagree with everyone.  Do I win a prize?

 

Volunteer to be a moderator. Craig is showing dangerous signs of common sense and impartiality. I for one don't like it.

;) :tongue:


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#131 Saint Billinge

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 08:33 AM

She sounds like a wonderful person and the line "never ever dictated to us about her religious beliefs" is the defining one to me. The ones who do dictate belief are the self-righteous hypocrites I've no time for.

 

And I agree Phil about certain people over religion. I once journeyed by car to London from St Helens with my boss and glad to get back home. He never let up preaching to me. I met up again last year to do some gardening work at his home and endured four days of the same. Likewise, I know of another person who goes on and on about declining church attendance yet never practices what she preaches. At the end of the day, there is good and bad across all sections of society. 

 

As for responsible adults, there was a truly shocking television news clip showing a man holding a child in front of storm-battering seas. It beggars belief.


Edited by Saint Billinge, 04 January 2014 - 09:15 AM.

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#132 Griff9of13

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:07 PM

looks like they could be getting a whole lot busier in 2014: Government to stop funding for low-income families facing emergencies


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#133 Saintslass

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:11 PM

looks like they could be getting a whole lot busier in 2014: Government to stop funding for low-income families facing emergencies

Not quite true.  The Government is to cut its subsidy to local authorities for the provision of such welfare support.  It will be up to local authorities to manage their budgets in order to be in a position to offer such help.  The squeeze is on local authorities, which is where most of the debt problems originated under Labour.



#134 Griff9of13

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:16 PM

Not quite true.  The Government is to cut its subsidy to local authorities for the provision of such welfare support.  It will be up to local authorities to manage their budgets in order to be in a position to offer such help.  The squeeze is on local authorities, which is where most of the debt problems originated under Labour.

 

It doesn't matter where it is getting cut from, it is still getting cut. And as a result more vulnerable people will lose a vital life-line. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#135 Saintslass

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 05:36 PM

It doesn't matter where it is getting cut from, it is still getting cut. And as a result more vulnerable people will lose a vital life-line. 

I think when discussing cuts it is important to report on something accurately, which neither the link title nor the initial paragraphs of the Gruniad article did.

 

It's quite possible that vulnerable people will not lose a lifeline.  We would need to find out about individual council budgets to find out whether that will be the case.  St Helens Council, for example, have been massive bleaters about The Cuts ever since the coalition came into power, yet miraculously they have found the money to buy a completely new fleet of recycling trucks along with all the recycling items needed for residents to recycle; they have put in a bid to purchase one of the town's shopping centres (although they were outbid in the end); and they have recently notified us of plans to turn a local running track (which featured in the film Chariots of Fire) into a car park, a new build that would require considerable financial outlay I should think.  Yet all the while they continue to bleat about The Cuts.  My guess is that like so many local councils (I have worked for four of them, including St Helens), they have been incredibly wasteful and taken for granted tax payers money for too many years now.  I would like to see evidence of budget plans within local authorities before making any judgment call on whether needy people will suffer as a result of this decrease in subsidy (and remember, we don't know how much the subsidy accounted for spending in this area in the first place).






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