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Where does the amateur game go from here?


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#1 LordCharles

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:09 PM

With the consensus being that BARLA and the RFL are as far apart as they have ever been and wanting to keep the debate as constructive as possible, where does the amateur game go from here?

The RFL have openly said that as of 2014 all leagues must abide by the RFL's operational rules or be classed as a non recognised league/competition.

BARLA have effectively become pointless, so what realistically are the options outside of any RFL controlled competition?

Thoughts?

There must be other options or alternatives?

#2 MidlandsRugbyLeague

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:19 PM

Why must there be options or alternatives? In which other sports to groups try and exist outside of the governing body's framework?

#3 LordCharles

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:24 PM

Why must there be options or alternatives? In which other sports to groups try and exist outside of the governing body's framework?

So basically you are suggesting everybody just does as the RFL says and shuts up?

Do you have any recollection or experience relating to previous efforts by the RFL to run/interfere with the amateur game?

Do you believe in dictatorships or democracies?

Do you think that with hundreds of years combined experience and thousands of hours of voluntary service those currently running the amateur game and clubs need the RFL bods coming up with the most ridiculous initiatives to develop children at 6, 7 and 8 years of age? Or create a performance driven environment and culture at 15s upwards that can decimate clubs at certain age groups due to the alliances more promoted clubs may have with certain SL clubs?

Edited by LordCharles, 30 December 2013 - 05:32 PM.


#4 The 4 of Us

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:47 PM

You manage to open another BARLA thread within 30 minutes of the last one being closed and manage to turn it into another slanging match after 1 response. Well done LC. Problem within the game is the number of individuals who think only their opinion counts. That's your problem right there. Petty mindedness poisons such a great game.

Edited by The 4 of Us, 30 December 2013 - 05:47 PM.


#5 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:00 PM

There is no such thing as democracy - It just means you just vote for which dictatorship you want to be under!

Edited by Celtic Rooster, 30 December 2013 - 06:00 PM.


#6 LordCharles

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:32 PM

You manage to open another BARLA thread within 30 minutes of the last one being closed and manage to turn it into another slanging match after 1 response. Well done LC. Problem within the game is the number of individuals who think only their opinion counts. That's your problem right there. Petty mindedness poisons such a great game.

 

So who's opinion does count? 

 

Or can only the chosen few have an opinion that actually counts?



#7 nec

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:35 PM

Where the community game goes from here SHOULD be to accept that everyone has a right to play the game and narrow definitions such as amateur are outdated. It should be to pledge their complete allegiance to one governing body but seek to influence that body in order to produce the best outcomes for all sections of the game. It should be to offer solutions and suggestions not complaints and backbiting.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#8 Defender

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:48 PM

I would agree with LC do we believe in democracies as we do not get this with the RFL they will make the decisions but are they right for the game, but is there any alternative?

: Introduction of the operational rules despite a large number of the game asking for parts to be changed, this was accepted by the RFL delegation that changes needed to be made but they went through anyway.
: As far as I am aware the NCL clubs had no vote on the operational rules this was voted on by the management of the league funny enough put in place by the RFL
: Changing the criteria for professional clubs in the policy review
: A criteria in place for all NCL clubs half is not now met by a number of clubs, only enforced when it suits
: The academy structure looks like it is changing again with only 10 being supported with funding, also looking into a 3 tier academy structure Full time academy, Part time Centre of Excellence and Player Participation Club meaning only the strong Community clubs will survive (is this DG saying there may be collateral damage)I notice a lot of the posts are from people associated with large and well known clubs so look forward to more players coming to you if they think the only way to be spotted is to be at a PPC, the flow of players will dry up when the smaller feeder clubs are no longer with us.
: The RFL saying there was a 4k increase in participation this year when they posted 58k in 2013 in 2012 they highlighted we are pleased to announce 100k, this does not include the Yorkshire Youth numbers as the RFL did not ask for numbers possibly because they play winter, they also got the figures wrong for the Pennine
: In the policy review it states there is not enough players playing the game from 7-14 but David Gent says all is rosy even though we know we always need more

This is just a brief overview and there is a lot more

I will agree with a lot of what is said on the forum but what we have is a total split in a minority sport, people do not appear to Respect or even trust the governing body, for the amateur game there is no credible alternative, we have descent in the professional game, registrations down in some leagues, if participation does decrease standards will drop as the pool of quality will be less. The RFL want to go down a quality route
unless we come to our senses and start talking for the good of the game not the ###### for tat we have at the moment, there will be no game

#9 Defender

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 07:00 PM

NEC you say we should pledge our complete allegiance to the governing body but this is the problem the operational rules offer only the voice of the RFL we have seen this already no compromise, entries to the challenge cup and introduction of the operational rules despite David Gent and Other RFL management accepting changes needed to be made, they have made no changes and now we have to accept whatever they propose, there is not enough of an alternative on the community board to make any difference to any of the RFL proposals
You also have to remember that the rules do not come into effect from March for summer clubs and September for winter clubs, so why were they not invited into the challenge cup, petulance is all I can say

Where do we go as I say on my post there is no alternative?

#10 TaxiEgg

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 07:22 PM

The game is all over the shop and there is so much confusion coming out of the RFL .
They send out the foot soldiers to test the water in meetings and then back off when challenged ,trying to pass it off as lessening the burden off the volunteers .

Policies don't stack up all we ask is that they are open and transparent and stop treating as fools .
Then and only then can the game move forward .

#11 Defender

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 07:38 PM

I agree there is total confusion and the noise coming out of BARLA is deafening

#12 LordCharles

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:47 PM

BARLA under Sue Taylor really needed to step up and put itself in a position to listen, mediate and debate the many issues and concerns highlighted by the amateur game with the RFL.

Sadly it has not, it has also failed to outline how it (BARLA) sees it's future role within the sport and deliver any sort of vision or alternative to any party that does not wish to jump on board the RFL bandwagon.

The amateur game needs somebody to do this and fast IMHO before the only option is to follow the rest of the lemmings off the cliff!

#13 nec

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:24 PM

Successful sports have a governing body that covers all of the sport and acts in the interest of the whole sport. The RFL are by no means perfect but surely it would be better to try and develop an inclusive strategy from within an effective governing body that become the pennine branch of the People's Popular Front of Judaea.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#14 Defender

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:04 AM

Please forget about BARLA and sniping at them answer the statements from the RFL as these are more concerning as you say show allegiance to the RFL they are the governing body and making the decisions the Pennine-BARLA is just hear say at the moment
Other sports have governing bodies but also have the money to back up their mistakes, ie football and RU and even Cricket these are by no means perfect but can throw money at the problem these are only successful sports because of the money, please name me another successful minority sport, RL is a minority sport!

#15 LordCharles

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:17 PM

Anybody who does not think that at some point in the future this will not have a negative effect on a considerable number of community clubs needs to revisit their thinking.

Three tiers of quality player development environments are created:

Academy: Full-time professional club environment. Restricted to 10 environments.

Centre of Excellence: Part-time professional club and education environment. Restricted to professional club and education partnership.

Player Development Club: Community or education environment. Open to community clubs accredited as providing a high quality player development environment.


Player Development Clubs are part of the RFL's performance pathway to help raise coaching and playing standards nationally for players in the U13s and U14s age groups. The PDC provides a high quality performance coaching programme aimed at improving technical and tactical knowledge, core skills and strength and conditioning.

Effectively the RFL want to drive players towards specific accredited community clubs run by VOLUNTEERS to develop players for their (RFL) player pathway, how this impacts on the majority of Community clubs and competitions will be detrimental in the long run.

What the RFL are doing is saying to all clubs and VOLUNTEERS, up skill yourselves, become accredited, as a result attract the top players within the junior game to your club, sell yourselves as the place to start on the player performance pathway.............but it's your choice, you don't have to do this you can just be a normal community club if you like!

Question - Where do you think little Johnny and his mum and dad want to go? A normal community club or a player development club?

Now then correct me if I am wrong.......are the majority of clubs not in existence simply because most coaches, most volunteers have children playing the game?

How many of these volunteers actually want to be regarded as career coaches delivering high quality performance coaching programmes aimed at improving technical and tactical knowledge, core skills and strength and conditioning?

That will no doubt frighten a good few off!!!!

It will also put clubs with significant links to their local SL club in a considerably stronger position, as certain clubs do have several career coaches who are linked to said SL clubs within them at say ages 14's and upwards.

Yet for the good of the game we don't need a BARLA or another body that could mediate or debate these sort of really important issues for and on behalf of the NORMAL community clubs and their VOLUNTEERS, we just need to fall in to line with all the RFL put before us as VOLUNTEERS within the amateur game?

#16 nec

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:38 PM

Name me an effective sport, all are minority interests except football, that has a separate governing body for non-professionals. Boxing does, but it is almost a different sport at amateur level.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#17 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:42 PM

Name me an effective sport, all are minority interests except football, that has a separate governing body for non-professionals. Boxing does, but it is almost a different sport at amateur level.

 

And isn't rugby league when it's played for enjoyment?



#18 LordCharles

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 01:12 PM

NEC I would be interested to know your thoughts regarding my last post on the player pathway and community player development clubs?



#19 nec

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 02:30 PM

I can see the danger of it skewing competitions but if it means the best youngsters have access to the best coaching that is surely a good thing. It strikes me as an incentive for clubs to improve their coaching and that is a good thing. I see a cohesive system where merit leagues feed the lower level community leagues which feed the better ones right up to the local top tier club(s) as strategically important. Local union clubs here get a real boost from Newcastle falcons players working with their youngsters, they don't see it as a problem.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#20 Impartial Observer

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 02:32 PM

please name me another successful minority sport, RL is a minority sport!


What is your definition of success for RL?




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