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#41 Smew

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 04:28 PM

To be honest I could not care less about anyones stadium providing they are safe. I go to watch a game of rugby  not  eat drink , change the baby etc. I've followed RL for forty odd years including taking young ones with me and have to say one of my favourite grounds was the Willows at Salford. Much better than the soulless tin can they are in now. 



#42 The Parksider

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 05:12 PM

It's my understanding that Wakefield are trying to buy the ground back from the Bank of Ireland.
Their also trying to buy the adjacent Bowling Alley back

 

So is that with the money they got for the sale of BV??



#43 OMEGA

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 05:32 PM

No, the money they got from the sale was held by a semi mysterious company which seemed to be owned by the Richardsons, If memory serves my correctly there was about £1M in an account which was transferred there by the Bank of Ireland, all allegedly of course.

Wakefield Trinity will be putting little to nothing into the stadium rebuild, it will all come from the money transferred from Newmarket

Edited by OMEGA, 05 May 2014 - 05:33 PM.


#44 The Parksider

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 06:20 AM

No, the money they got from the sale was held by a semi mysterious company which seemed to be owned by the Richardsons, If memory serves my correctly there was about £1M in an account which was transferred there by the Bank of Ireland, all allegedly of course.

Wakefield Trinity will be putting little to nothing into the stadium rebuild, it will all come from the money transferred from Newmarket

 

IIRC the money from the sale of BV was what was going forward to the Newmarket ground.

 

If that money is no longer available then where has money come from given the BV sale money was protected from the administrators, in short Wakefield were skint and still are aren't they?

 

Sorry to persist but it seems a sum of money has appeared from er.....well anyway it's good they can build a new ground at BV, but something's missing in the logic!



#45 PREPOSTEROUS

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 07:44 AM

The money from the sale of BV vanished several years ago when the ghost company owned by Ted Richardson bought the ground before going into administration. They delivered half of £2.8m up front with the balance due on departure. The first half paid off debts and kept the club ticking over, where the other £1.4m has gone no one knows.

I think there's club are hopeful that the developers will stump up around £7m for the redevelopment of BV rather than put that into a new stadium on Stanley. I think they'll be hard pushed to get close to that. I'm not expecting much to occur.

#46 The Parksider

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:01 AM

The money from the sale of BV vanished several years ago when the ghost company owned by Ted Richardson bought the ground before going into administration. They delivered half of £2.8m up front with the balance due on departure. The first half paid off debts and kept the club ticking over, where the other £1.4m has gone no one knows.

I think there's club are hopeful that the developers will stump up around £7m for the redevelopment of BV rather than put that into a new stadium on Stanley. I think they'll be hard pushed to get close to that. I'm not expecting much to occur.

 

Again sorry for my persistence but if the money from the Belle Vue sale has gone then it needs new money to build the ground.

 

On what basis would a developer stump up £700 never mind £7,000,000 to improve another companies sports ground.

 

Again I thought (maybe wrongly) that Yorkcourt needed Trinity to go to Newmarket as a lever to get the place built. Now they are not going what's in it for Yorkcourt?  



#47 PREPOSTEROUS

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:12 AM

Again sorry for my persistence but if the money from the Belle Vue sale has gone then it needs new money to build the ground.

On what basis would a developer stump up £700 never mind £7,000,000 to improve another companies sports ground.

Again I thought (maybe wrongly) that Yorkcourt needed Trinity to go to Newmarket as a lever to get the place built. Now they are not going what's in it for Yorkcourt?

Million dollar question. The section 106 binded YCP to provide a new stadium as part of the planning permission for the full estate. However they have found a loophole which means they don't have to. As far as I understand they have no legal obligation to contribute anything, so it's very much based on a moral obligation as the community sports facilities helped them get approval. Not holding my breath though.

#48 clwydianrange

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:25 AM

There's a bell ringing in my head that says the developer has stitched everybody up. Hope thats wrong as the only losers will be Trinity fans.



#49 JohnM

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 08:53 AM

To be honest I could not care less about anyones stadium providing they are safe. I go to watch a game of rugby  not  eat drink , change the baby etc. I've followed RL for forty odd years including taking young ones with me and have to say one of my favourite grounds was the Willows at Salford. Much better than the soulless tin can they are in now. 

 

To be honest I could not care less about anyones stadium providing they are safe. 

 

I think you are in a minority. There is in my mind no doubt that a clean, modern stadium with decent seats, facilities,  and yes, built to modern safety standards, increases crowds. I have an inside  and clean WC at home and I have every right to expect one at a  stadium that I have paid  to enter.

 

However, the issue of new stadiums is a difficult one.  Its a sensitive time when a club is putting a stadium  deal together. It must be galling  Wildcats fans  to think that people are just having a go when in reality they are just advising caution and trying to set the fans expectations. Same applies to Fev fans and the recent club statement. 

 

On the one hand, I'm sure everyone want to see Wildcats get a state of the art facility that will attract more paying fans and I'm sure everyone wants to see Fev do well, too, for the same reason: its good for the game, the fans, the towns and cities etc.

 

On the other hand, it is right for others to advise a reality check on people, personalities, plans, ambitions etc, as this game has had its fair share of new dawns and dashed hopes.


Edited by JohnM, 07 May 2014 - 08:54 AM.


#50 The Parksider

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 10:35 AM

To be honest I could not care less about anyones stadium providing they are safe. 

 

On the one hand, I'm sure everyone want to see Wildcats get a state of the art facility that will attract more paying fans and I'm sure everyone wants to see Fev do well, too, for the same reason: its good for the game, the fans, the towns and cities etc.

 

On the other hand, it is right for others to advise a reality check on people, personalities, plans, ambitions etc, as this game has had its fair share of new dawns and dashed hopes.

 

Always wise words from a JohnM in serious mode.

 

It looks as above Yorkcourt are under a "moral only" obligation to pay for a stadium re-vamp so I find this depressing news.

 

One thing to consider apart from that is the effect of a modern stadium on crowds. The advent of the Halliwell Jones and KC stadiums in Warrington and Hull saw these clubs rise to the 10,000 crowds mark, a very significant increase over their old dumps.

 

So for some time I took the view that a modern stadium was the key to SL success.

 

Since then such stadiums in Widnes, Salford and Huddersfield really don't seem to have much of an effect. So i can only conclude you need the stadium AND you need the product......

 

So for Fev's improvements, and the possible revamp at Wakey and the new Cas stadium Mk2 they should not hold too high hopes that they can attract more fans just because the stadium is better.

 

Though I take the point modern stadia may take more £££'s per head.......


Edited by The Parksider, 07 May 2014 - 10:38 AM.


#51 OMEGA

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:17 PM

I think York Court are in serious danger of being blackballed by WMDC for any future developments at either NM or anywhere else. For a company that's hocked its family silver to buy land that all falls in WMDCs jurisdiction that's a big axe waiting to fall.

Of course YCP knew this when they circumvented the S106 but they've cleverly put themselves in a strong bargaining position which will see a compromise reached. The compromise will see YCP save millions on the new stadium yet they'll still have to stump up for a Belle Vue revamp

#52 Blind side johnny

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:36 PM

Million dollar question. The section 106 binded YCP to provide a new stadium as part of the planning permission for the full estate. However they have found a loophole which means they don't have to. As far as I understand they have no legal obligation to contribute anything, so it's very much based on a moral obligation as the community sports facilities helped them get approval. Not holding my breath though.

 

 

Developer....................moral obligation................!!

 

Really?


Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


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#53 Bob8

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:19 AM

To be honest I could not care less about anyones stadium providing they are safe. I go to watch a game of rugby not eat drink, change the baby etc. I've followed RL for forty odd years including taking young ones with me and have to say one of my favourite grounds was the Willows at Salford. Much better than the soulless tin can they are in now. 

As John says, you are in a minority.  Most people go to rugby league matches for the fun of it and anything that helps them enjoy themselves will help.  Few people will say they go to the cinema for the comfortable, clean(ish) chairs, but very few people were willing to go to the cinema in the early 80's that is more to do with a better viewing area than films getting better.

 

Also, fans that do drink and eat are worth more to the club than one who does not.  If you had a baby, it might be the difference between going and not going (and bringing the next generation of fans with you).

 

Also, the club not having to spend a forture to maintain and old building could be the difference between being in profit or loss (as with St Helens) and there is more potential for community involvement and revenue from a new stadium than a dilapidated one.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#54 Smew

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:02 PM

Sorry but for me the product on the field is the most important feature…you can have the best stadium in the world , but if the team is not performing then it means nothing. Sometimes it means nothing anyway,,just look at Huddersfield. If Leeds/Wigan /Saints etc had won nothing for years on end the attendances would be no where near what they are now.



#55 Bob8

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:22 PM

Sorry but for me the product on the field is the most important feature…you can have the best stadium in the world , but if the team is not performing then it means nothing. Sometimes it means nothing anyway,,just look at Huddersfield. If Leeds/Wigan /Saints etc had won nothing for years on end the attendances would be no where near what they are now.


So the strategy to increase attendances is for every team to finish higher up the league. There are people like you who go regardless, but not enough of you. The experience of cinema and sport is that facilities matter.
Saints have higher attendees than when they were winning everything. The stadium may well be the difference.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#56 Smew

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:05 PM

By the same token the strategy to increase attendances by a lovely shiny stadium will not work either. Watching a team lose most weeks will have the most influence on who attends and who doesn't. 



#57 BBR

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 04:56 AM

By the same token the strategy to increase attendances by a lovely shiny stadium will not work either. Watching a team lose most weeks will have the most influence on who attends and who doesn't. 

 

And here is the reason why RL has/is failing to progress like other sports. I much prefered watching Bolton from the crumbling Burnden Terrace than the shiny new seats at the Reebok/Macron. However, you can not deny that far more people, especially women and kids now attend with better views and the ability to go to clean toilets and get hygenic food. For those with money, hundreds can now pay a bit extra for a range of hospitality, from a pie a pint without queing with a nice seat for the game, up to a padded seat and full meal, right up to the full works in a glass box. At Burnden, none of those options existed, the vast majority paid one entry price thus missing out on revenue.

 

Too many RL fans are stuck in 1950 and are unable to think beyond their own circumstances.

 

New grounds do not guarantee bigger crowds in RL. They generally do in football. Perhaps the mindset is different. But I am 100% sure that Huddersfield now get more money per head from their fans through the club shop, hospitality, refreshments etc



#58 Bob8

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 07:06 PM

By the same token the strategy to increase attendances by a lovely shiny stadium will not work either. Watching a team lose most weeks will have the most influence on who attends and who doesn't. 

Every club in Super League that has gone from an old stadium they have been in for many years to a newer stadium seems to have seen a large improvement in crowds.  I can think of Salford, Hull, Warrington, St Helens.  So, that strategy has worked.  Equally, many of these clubs have benefitted from far lower maintenance costs and more ways to make money.  This is reality and reality will not alter according to what you claim.

 

Your alternative is that we start have most of the teams winning each week.  


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#59 JohnM

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:58 AM

Last night at the real KC Stadium, there were a number of female fans with babes in arms., and families with pushchairs. Somehow, though I cannot prove it, I don't think that is something you would have seen at The Boulevard.

 

Of course, its not a black-and-white issue ( see what I did there?) : rugby v facilities, but it's all part of the mix. 



#60 Smew

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:07 AM

Yep definitely a mix of a lot of things…..I just wanted to point out the stadium is not the only and important issue imo.






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