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French Expansion and the New Professional System


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#1 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 04:58 PM

Right, now that the new system has been confirmed, one of the "dislikes" some people have mentioned include the barrier to European (specifically French) expansion it creates.

I can see the argument, and I guess if agree. Toulouse failed in a semi-pro set up. Logistically, it proved too much of a barrier to travel to the UK and have part time jobs. Without a huge cash injection, I can't see this new system being much different.

So what do I suggest?

Those of you who saw my proposal in the Never Ending thread saw my suggestions for having two permanent French franchises amongst a European SL, with P&R for the English clubs. After seeing this new system voted in, I've wondered how my previous idea could fit into the new system and I think I may have a solution. So here goes...

Let's say there are two French franchises in the SL (Catalans and Toulouse). Now the fear is obviously that one (or both) of these go into the qualifying playoffs, have a shocker and get relegated to a British semi pro league, find the same difficulties that Toulouse found before and never return.

Why not have only British clubs go into this qualifying playoff with Championship clubs?
And then have the French clubs that don't make the top 8 go into a French qualifying playoff with the top French clubs? This would guarantee French inclusion as well as give potential future French SL clubs exposure with games against the SL big guns? It could even spice up the French Elite in a way that Championship fans are hoping this new system spices up there league?

There are three possible scenarios -

1. No French clubs finish in bottom four, so the SLQPO is as it would be now (4 British SL clubs & 4 Championship clubs playing 7 fixtures).

2. One French club finishes in bottom four (3 British SL clubs & 4 Champ clubs playing 6 fixtures; 1 French SL & 3 French Elite clubs playing 6 fixtures).

3. Two French clubs finish in bottom four (2 British SL clubs & 4 Champ clubs playing 5 fixtures; 2 French SL clubs & 2 French Elite clubs playing 6 fixtures).

It could be the solution to guaranteeing French inclusion in the SL. It would obviously need the French Elite to align their league with the SL and Championship, but if it guarantees French inclusion in SL I'm sure the FFR13 would be all for it?

Would love to hear people's thoughts on this, especially those of Championship fans and French treizistes.
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#2 GeordieSaint

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:12 PM

Protect the French clubs? The vast majority of people would complain and state it is an unfair as they can't see past the interests of their own club. Toulouse's brief flirtation with the Championship fundamentally proved that a French side in a mainly semi-professional competition with salary cap restrictions did not and NEVER will work. However, the lunatics running the asylum (and many supporters) don't have the common sense, foresight or collective memory between them to realise that.


Edited by GeordieSaint, 19 January 2014 - 08:28 PM.

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#3 JM2010

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:25 PM

I agree about including the French league in the P and R system. However, I think the French champions and the British champions should play off for the right to replace the team who finishes last in the bottom 8, as long as they meet some minimum standards

#4 willy

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:00 PM

If Toulouse bring in revenue that can be filtered down through the sport or become self funding by creating revenue and not relying on Sky money I would have them in!



#5 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:40 PM

If Toulouse bring in revenue that can be filtered down through the sport or become self funding by creating revenue and not relying on Sky money I would have them in!


Why must they do that but other clubs don't?
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#6 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:44 PM

Protect the French clubs? The vast majority of people would complain and state it is an unfair as they can't see past the interests of their own club. Toulouse's brief flirtation with the Championship fundamentally proved that a French side in a mainly semi-professional competition with salary cap restrictions did not and NEVER will work. However, the lunatics running the asylum (and many supporters) don't have the common sense, foresight or collective memory between them to realise that.

In this system, the French clubs aren't "protected" as they still have to qualify again if they fail to make the top 8.

French go to French qualifiers. British go to British qualifiers. Not sure if many could argue it's more unfair than having to go play in a league from another country to qualify for a European competition...
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#7 GeordieSaint

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:03 PM

In this system, the French clubs aren't "protected" as they still have to qualify again if they fail to make the top 8.

French go to French qualifiers. British go to British qualifiers. Not sure if many could argue it's more unfair than having to go play in a league from another country to qualify for a European competition...

 

I understand that Wellsy. But to the average fan and the current RFL administration, they'll see it as protection as the French don't have to play a British side and therefore unfair. People and sadly the RFL can't grasp the idea that it is a European SL and that a French club cannot survive playing in the Championship.


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#8 dhw

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:10 PM

Protect the French clubs? The vast majority of people would complain and state it is an unfair as they can't see past the interests of their own club. Toulouse's brief flirtation with the Championship fundamentally proved that a French side in a mainly semi-professional competition with salary cap restrictions did not and NEVER will work. However, the lunatics running the asylum (and many supporters) don't have the common sense, foresight or collective memory between them to realise that.

You can state that the Toulouse episode in the Championship did not work, but how can you state that it would never work ? If Toulouse cannot survive under the same rules as every other team in the competition then they do not deserve to be there.



#9 dhw

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:12 PM

If Toulouse bring in revenue that can be filtered down through the sport or become self funding by creating revenue and not relying on Sky money I would have them in!

How many of the current SL clubs do not rely on Sky Money?



#10 eal

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:17 PM

Toulouse should be in the top division and fully professional. 



#11 Henson Park Old Firm

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:36 PM

quick question, not sure if it has already been discussed... can the Catalans get relegated or are they protected from the p/r?


Edited by Henson Park Old Firm, 19 January 2014 - 09:38 PM.


#12 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:47 PM

You can state that the Toulouse episode in the Championship did not work, but how can you state that it would never work ? If Toulouse cannot survive under the same rules as every other team in the competition then they do not deserve to be there.

But why should any French club have to go through the British system to enter a European competition? They can't survive because it's completely impractical.
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#13 gingerjon

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:45 PM

quick question, not sure if it has already been discussed... can the Catalans get relegated or are they protected from the p/r?

 

I can't be arsed opening the pdf and searching but I believe the idea is that all teams play under the same rule so, yes, they can be relegated.


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#14 GeordieSaint

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:15 AM

But why should any French club have to go through the British system to enter a European competition? They can't survive because it's completely impractical.

 

Toulouse are seen as a threat by people; a threat to the so-called 'fairness' of the system and a 'place' of a traditional English club. Our game is very naive and outdated in its outlook and this won't change whilst the leadership of the game are clueless and do not create a plan for the long term development on our game.


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#15 eddo

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:45 AM

Just thinking about the much bandied about word expansion. This is already happening here in Championship ! which seems to have been abandoned in this re structure . Toulouse had there chance and failed full stop . 

So can anyone please expand on this ?



#16 gingerjon

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 06:55 AM

which seems to have been abandoned in this re structure .

 

That's because it's a whole game solution that ignores virtually all of the game.

 

What it does say, in passing, is that any and all expansion from now on will be C1 upwards.  So they're keeping the division there as an entry point if nothing else.


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#17 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 06:56 AM

Just thinking about the much bandied about word expansion. This is already happening here in Championship ! which seems to have been abandoned in this re structure . Toulouse had there chance and failed full stop .
So can anyone please expand on this ?

Err, if you actually read any of my post you'd see why I believe Toulouse failed and why I thought it was a completely unfair situation. Try putting Featherstone in the French leagues for three years with a lower salary cap than the other part time English clubs and see how long it takes them to lose all their players. It wasn't going to work. It is hardly "having their chance." And it certainly isn't ended with a full stop.

How have the new expansion clubs been forgotten, by the way?

Now can you answer the question as to why you think a French club must come through a British system to enter a European league?
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#18 Bob8

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 11:08 AM

There are many posters who think French clubs should only be entered into Super League if they can be readily seen to immediately contribute to the financies of the existing clubs.  This is a reasonable viewpoint, as long as it also applies to English clubs wanting to enter Super League.


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#19 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:24 PM

There are a lot of "one rule for one, one rule for another" opinions that I can understand why people would turn their nose up at them. But at the same time they need to offer something that is not one rule for one and one for another

Toulouse shouldn't have to come through the British system. The all encompassing rule should be that a club must progress through the professional league that represents their country before entering SL. That is fair to all.
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#20 sweaty craiq

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 12:32 PM

Second tier would be FT majority with Toulouse in it, top 4 2014 championship plus 2 SL relegated plus Toulouse, then you may have Donny throwing a few bob in to go FT






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