Ditto the Stainburn-Geary move.
Batley Attacking Play
Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:28 AM
The most unfashionable yet over achieving mutts around
Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:55 AM
Sean richardson tip back from kick off!
We haven't had anyone since Sean left who was prepared to compete for the high ball. We just let the opposition catch it and then tackle them.
Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:06 PM
Was about to mention the Stainburn-Geary move as well. Remember the John Carroll one where he would drive for the lane and leave the ball behind him on the floor for the next man? Never worked much,that one!! I wonder if JK ever reads fans' comments, and whether it makes him feel good that we trust him so much, or whether it heaps pressure on him?
Posted 29 January 2014 - 02:42 PM
... there is no cover whatsoever except for converted 2nd rowers, much as I feel Bretherton and say Chandler could fill in, they are not the answer.
You say that Phildog, but I'm not sure.
The game has changed so much over the years that old fashioned centres (the Carl Gibson type of centre) have just about disappeared from the game, a bit like the old ball playing Brad Fittler, Wally Lewis type of loose forwards. In the current game I really cannot see much difference between the roll of second rowers, loose forwards and centres. To my mind, they all have to be big, strong and fast enough to bust tackles or beat men, they also need to be able to get the ball away to the support, and they all have to be good strong defenders too. I am struggling to name a good British centre at any club, maybe excluding Callum Watkins at Leeds, that are not really second rowers playing in the centre. I cannot think of any others off hand that I would consider international class centres, certainly Cudjoe isn't good enough for GB in my book but it's only my opinion.
Looking at the best centres in the game over the last 20 years or so, since the likes of Mal Meninga and Noel "Crusher" Cleal etc. the most successful centres in recent years have tended to be big lads that have been built more like 2nd rowers than old fashioned centres. The best 2 English centres I can remember are Paul Newlove and Gary Connolly. These two were more in the mould of 2nd rowers rather than centres, both standing over 6 feet tall, 15 or 16 stone and could move. Then you have the likes of the Iro brothers, certainly one of them if not both ended up in the second two, through to the likes of Jarryd Hayne, Michael Jennings and Greg Inglis they are all big lads that would not look out of place in the 2nd row. The Aussies seem to take the best players and improve them by switching them to fullback, where they have to be to good at reading the game and spot gaps etc. so they do not become one trick ponies. Lockyer was another who learned his trade at fullback and turned out to be one of the best halfbacks in the game. Most of the Aussie 3 quarter line could play anywhere, Fullback, Wing or Centre, however that could be because they are just better players and can switch positions .
Over recent years, the game has become a lot less open. Probably because there is so much wrestling and holding down in the tackle compared to what there was in say the mid-nineties. The powers that "be" don't want to see the 80 - 0 scoreline's that this faster brand of open rugby created, and there are good arguments for both fast play the balls and the slower wrestling and dominance referee defined slower ruck area. IMO they need to get the balance right though, and it is far too slow for my liking.
Whether we like it or not, the job for most players now, even wingers, is to tire the opposition out so the halfbacks and hooker can take advantage late on in the game by exploiting tiring defences. Rettie and McGillvary play the game more like prop forwards than wingers. Going back 10 or 20 years ago until the likes of Vainikolo (sp?) could you imagined having wingers that played like prop forwards? I couldn't wingers were all like Potts, quick, agile and could beat men on a tanner.
Maybe with the exception of Wigan, most teams in SL played the percentage game in most of the rounds I saw. Sheffield and Halifax are teams that play in this way too, it is boring to watch at times, but I don't think anyone could say it is not effective. The problem is which would spectators prefer, a winning team or a team that is entertaining, but you can't have both every week. It is extremely rare at even the highest levels to see a team that delivers both week in week out.
Edited by TNT Heritage, 30 January 2014 - 08:15 AM.
Posted 29 January 2014 - 07:51 PM
I don't know about wingers of the last 10 to 20 years, TNT, but in earlier days I seem to remember the great Billy Boston playing prop, whilst Joe Levula is the biggest winger that I can recall playing for Batley. Joe was bigger than the most if not all Batleys forward.
Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:54 PM
A little before my time Bill hehe. Although I have seen a few videos of Boston and boy are you right, he was a big lad, but he couldn't half move for a guy of his size. Sadly these guys seem to be very thin on the ground over here. The Aussies seem to have loads of them though.
I suppose the point I was trying to make was, except for half backs, most rugby players seem to be of a similar mould in the modern game. It doesn't really matter what position they are, most players, forwards or backs have very similar attributes and very similar roles, so players can tend to play a number of positions, certainly they seem far more at home out of position than they used to. It could be just my memory playing tricks on me though.
Edited by TNT Heritage, 29 January 2014 - 08:55 PM.
Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:57 AM
The points that you make TNT are not unreasonable given that wingers are routinely used on the first drive these days. We have also seen a lot of very big centres in recent years, even in the Championship, whilst the way that the kicking game on the last tackle has developed seems to have been at the expense of classic wing play. This was sometimes a source of frustration last year given the quality of the wingers that we had and the wonderful finishing that we saw from them when given the chance.
I was being a bit pedantic picking up on your wingers/prop comment, but I certainly don't disagree with the main thrust of your argument. We may see some classic centre play from Faal, if his defence is sound enough to keep him in the side this year.