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1 in 9 schools don't have English as the first language


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#1 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:26 PM

http://www.telegraph...t-language.html

 

I have to say I didn't expect it to be that high


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#2 Just Browny

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:35 PM

Yep, slightly surprised it's that high.

 

 

At Maidenhall primary school in Luton, 98.9 per cent of pupils do not speak english as their first language.

Children speak no fewer than 14 different languages, including Pahari, Urdu, Bengali, Punjabi, Somali, Polish, Hindi, Gujarati, Tamil, Portuguese, Arabic, Spanish and Pashto.

When pupils arrive at the school at the age of five, some have never seen a word of english before. Pupils are up to two years behind the national average for when they arrive.

Yasmine Dhillon, the head teacher, said: "Some of them have never seen the written word. At home the parents may not have any books, and when they come to us some of them only have words or phrases in English."

For the first year pupils are "immersed in English", after which most pupils have reached national standards.

 

Good stuff then. There are techniques for sorting the kids out very quickly and, as long as the teaching remains good and kids who fall behind aren't written off then they'll catch up (and often overtake their 'native English' classmates, especially in the spoken form of the language.


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#3 gingerjon

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:41 PM

The difficulty is in differentiating between people who don't have English as a first language and those who don't have sufficient capability in English (who may or may not have English as a first language).

 

The school of which I was a governor for a few years had plenty of both.  There was a growing problem of children from all backgrounds arriving in Reception and being close to non-verbal.  They could work with children who'd come into the nursery but it was very, very hard on limited resources (probably worse now) for those who started the school proper in that position.


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#4 Bleep1673

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:52 PM

I'm surprised the Torygraph even picked that up. It sounds like a Daily Mail kind of headline.

Although the average written English on this board sometimes leaves me gasping for breath.

One, Hull FC poster regularly drops his h's more than his winger drops passes.

He writes his as is, has as as, and has the grasp of punctuation of a chip butty

Edited by Bleep1673, 03 February 2014 - 06:02 PM.

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#5 Methven Hornet

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:34 PM

I'm surprised the Torygraph even picked that up. It sounds like a Daily Mail kind of headline.

Although the average written English on this board sometimes leaves me gasping for breath.

One, Hull FC poster regularly drops his h's more than his winger drops passes.

He writes his as is, has as as, and has the grasp of punctuation of a chip butty

 

Psst, you've missed the full stop off your last sentence. ;)


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#6 Saintslass

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:48 PM

I'm surprised the Torygraph even picked that up. It sounds like a Daily Mail kind of headline.
 

Why?  The Telegraph was simply pointing out a fact.  There is a large number of schools in England in particular in which a high proportion of children do not speak English as their first language.

 

Young children are very adept at learning a new language so long as immersion techniques are used but it is easier for these children to fall behind in their other studies partly because time is taken up with language learning in classroom hours but also because they often don't have the parental support in that learning due to parents being unable to speak English either.  Parental support can be the difference between success and otherwise throughout the primary school years.



#7 Northern Sol

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:58 PM

Yep, slightly surprised it's that high.

 

 

Good stuff then. There are techniques for sorting the kids out very quickly and, as long as the teaching remains good and kids who fall behind aren't written off then they'll catch up (and often overtake their 'native English' classmates, especially in the spoken form of the language.

The problem is the English children who won't get much education in the first couple of years because they are waiting for the other kids to learn English. These kids will then be significantly behind the rest when they enter secondary school. There is a very real equal opportunities issue here.



#8 Steve May

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:31 PM

The difficulty is in differentiating between people who don't have English as a first language and those who don't have sufficient capability in English (who may or may not have English as a first language).

 

There is also a big difference between a school where 20 languages are spoken and English, despite being everyone's second language, is by necessity the lingua franca in the playground, and a school where all the kids speak the same non-English language.

 

FWIW, it's now thought that one of the reasons why London state schools are so good* is that so many of the children are fluent in multiple languages. 

 

 

* that twunt Gove would never admit that, of course.


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#9 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:43 PM

There is also a big difference between a school where 20 languages are spoken and English, despite being everyone's second language, is by necessity the lingua franca in the playground, and a school where all the kids speak the same non-English language.

 

FWIW, it's now thought that one of the reasons why London state schools are so good* is that so many of the children are fluent in multiple languages. 

 

 

* that twunt Gove would never admit that, of course.

It's news to me that very many of them are "so good". London schools have multiple problems.



#10 hindle xiii

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:55 PM

1. I blame the Welsh

 

2. Point and speak louder... it's exactly what teachers do anyway, whatever the language.


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#11 hindle xiii

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:56 PM

It's news to me that very many of them are "so good". London schools have multiple problems.

That's maths, not English. Do keep up, boy.


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#12 Steve May

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:01 PM

It's news to me that very many of them are "so good". London schools have multiple problems.

 

 

Well, you need to keep up.  London schools have been the best in the country for some time now.

 

It's thought to be a mixture of the incredibly varied intake, the opportunities inherent to a big city and the hugely successful "London Challenge" programme which, unusually, is a government programme which focusses on the thing that matters - ie the quality of the teaching and the interaction between the teacher and the pupil - rather than a whole barrel load of irrelevant Govine guff.


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#13 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:22 PM

Well, you need to keep up.  London schools have been the best in the country for some time now.

 

It's thought to be a mixture of the incredibly varied intake, the opportunities inherent to a big city and the hugely successful "London Challenge" programme which, unusually, is a government programme which focusses on the thing that matters - ie the quality of the teaching and the interaction between the teacher and the pupil - rather than a whole barrel load of irrelevant Govine guff.

I'll give you that some schools are probably very good but I would certainly be interested in any link that suggests that London schools across the board are overachieving.



#14 gingerjon

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:30 PM

I'll give you that some schools are probably very good but I would certainly be interested in any link that suggests that London schools across the board are overachieving.

 

Link


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#15 Steve May

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:31 PM

I'll give you that some schools are probably very good but I would certainly be interested in any link that suggests that London schools across the board are overachieving.

 

 

To be fair, it was something I read in that hotbed of lily-livered liberal, do gooding nonsense - the Financial Times.  So it's probably rubbish.


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#16 Steve May

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:32 PM

 

 

gingerjon and me are psychically linked.   I'm basically like he would be if he had any balls.


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#17 gingerjon

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:34 PM

gingerjon and me are psychically linked. 

 

I wondered what those voices were.


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#18 Futtocks

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:36 PM

I wondered what those voices were.

You need one of those tinfoil helmets...


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#19 Griff9of13

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:54 PM

You need one of those tinfoil helmets...

 

There are one or two posters on here who should have one to spare. If you ask nicely I'm sure they'd be happy to lend you one.  :ph34r:


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#20 Northern Sol

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:12 PM

Apparently I have used my monthly limit of 8 free articles. I'll have to read it later.