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Get in there, Marwan!


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#101 amh

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:30 PM

Definitely worth a listen and it is up now


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#102 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:11 PM

Has it never occurred to some posters that Marwan is exactly what a Sport like Rugby League needs in a metropolis. Given that Manchester is a Soccer City with a strong following for Lancashire Cricket and,whether some of you like or not Sale Sharks. Is it not great that Rugby League has this big personality able to command media headlines, who judging by Red Willow's post is a true fans chairman, grabbing headlines and getting people talking about Rugby League and in particular Salford Rugby League.

 

Love him or loathe him you just can't ignore him, the Good Doctor was even being quoted down here in the deep south where we have a distinctly different Metro edition reflecting the regions priorities. The fact that Marwan is also right on the majority of the main issues is almost a bonus.

 

Salford is strategially important for rugby league and I hope that the team justifies Marwan's investment this year, because a strong Salford in an important media market can only be good for the game. This is not expansion, per se, but represents the best chance league has of regaining lost territory in Manchester.

 

Viva the Red Revolution at Barton !


Edited by THE RED ROOSTER, 06 February 2014 - 08:14 PM.

I am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths


 

 

David Hughes to Ian Lenagan Page 134 - A Pastel Revolution - Fletcher and Gordas - 2006

 

Being an outsider, it is easiest to see what is wrong with the sport. It's a fantastic sport that has been undersold and under-marketed  because people who run it probably want to keep it the way it is

 

 

Dr Marwan Koukash to Joanthan Lieu. Sunday Telegraph 9th March 2014

 

 


#103 Red John

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:46 PM

Has it never occurred to some posters that Marwan is exactly what a Sport like Rugby League needs in a metropolis. Given that Manchester is a Soccer City with a strong following for Lancashire Cricket and,whether some of you like or not Sale Sharks. Is it not great that Rugby League has this big personality able to command media headlines, who judging by Red Willow's post is a true fans chairman, grabbing headlines and getting people talking about Rugby League and in particular Salford Rugby League.

 

Love him or loathe him you just can't ignore him, the Good Doctor was even being quoted down here in the deep south where we have a distinctly different Metro edition reflecting the regions priorities. The fact that Marwan is also right on the majority of the main issues is almost a bonus.

 

Salford is strategially important for rugby league and I hope that the team justifies Marwan's investment this year, because a strong Salford in an important media market can only be good for the game. This is not expansion, per se, but represents the best chance league has of regaining lost territory in Manchester.

 

Viva the Red Revolution at Barton !

Whoa! Steady on there. Rugby of either code has never had a particularly strong presence in Manchester. The city is pretty much all football, for some reason. There are no professional union clubs there and there has never been a professional League club, apart from Belle Vue Rangers' brief existence in the 50s. It's not a matter of regaining lost territory, more gaining territory for the first time so don't get your hopes up too high. The lost territory he needs to regain is in Salford, and things look fairly promising on that front.



#104 L Bow

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:19 PM

Whoa! Steady on there. Rugby of either code has never had a particularly strong presence in Manchester. The city is pretty much all football, for some reason. There are no professional union clubs there and there has never been a professional League club, apart from Belle Vue Rangers' brief existence in the 50s. It's not a matter of regaining lost territory, more gaining territory for the first time so don't get your hopes up too high. The lost territory he needs to regain is in Salford, and things look fairly promising on that front.

 

I think we have to accept that many people attach the Manchester label to virtually a 20 mile radius round Manchester taking Piccadilly Gardens as the centre.



#105 audois

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 12:43 PM

I thought that Salford made an impression on Manchester sport in the late 60's. The Willows with its night club under Brian Snape was the place to be Friday nights. United players often seen there.When David Watkins played his first game near 14,000 for match v Oldham. The trouble was the game in general round about that time took a nose dive; even with raft of big name union signings they struggled in the 70's to push crowds much more than 7,000 from what I can remember.

Swinton too got great cup crowds didn't they at Station Road; thinking Widnes tie 1964 18,000? The loss of Station Road though a loss to the wider Manchester area as it staged regularly Cup Semis, Championship Finals and Test matches - that kept the game in peoples' minds.
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#106 sweaty craiq

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 12:47 PM

I think we have to accept that many people attach the Manchester label to virtually a 20 mile radius round Manchester taking Piccadilly Gardens as the centre.

 

That includes Leigh then, never considered miself a Manc?????



#107 L Bow

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:25 PM

That includes Leigh then, never considered miself a Manc?????

 

I would not consider you one either but some of those who use looser interpretations do.  I've even heard it claimed that being covered by GMR constitutes a Manchester team!!


Edited by L Bow, 07 February 2014 - 01:25 PM.


#108 The Parksider

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:53 PM

Has it never occurred to some posters that Marwan is exactly what a Sport like Rugby League needs in a metropolis. Given that Manchester is a Soccer City with a strong following for Lancashire Cricket and,whether some of you like or not Sale Sharks. Is it not great that Rugby League has this big personality able to command media headlines, who judging by Red Willow's post is a true fans chairman, grabbing headlines and getting people talking about Rugby League and in particular Salford Rugby League.

 

Love him or loathe him you just can't ignore him, the Good Doctor was even being quoted down here in the deep south where we have a distinctly different Metro edition reflecting the regions priorities. The fact that Marwan is also right on the majority of the main issues is almost a bonus.

 

Salford is strategially important for rugby league and I hope that the team justifies Marwan's investment this year, because a strong Salford in an important media market can only be good for the game. This is not expansion, per se, but represents the best chance league has of regaining lost territory in Manchester.

 

Viva the Red Revolution at Barton !

 

Good post. I have no problem with your cross Manchester/Salford references.

 

I'd be certain that the 10,000 who used to turn up for big games at the Willows in Snapes time, and the 10,000 who attended the last game at the Willows will come from all over the region.

 

I'm sure that nobody who lives in Manchester supports RL is as false as nobody who lives in Salford supports soccer.

 

It could very easily be the case that more fans could have been in those 10,000 crowds from outside Salford than in it, Not sure when Sale pull 10,000 for a big match they are all from Sale.

 

RL has a wide audience that doesn't fit in convenient boxes and the myth bandied about on here that RL is a local game for local folk and they won't hold with watching another club out of town is just that, a convenient myth to support the maintenance of too many small clubs vying for the same audience.

 

I dunno If Marwan actually wants to buy Oldham and Swinton and maybe Rochdale to shut them down and declare Salford are the only club in town, let's get behind the club, but it might actually be a good idea.



#109 keighley

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:59 PM

Good post. I have no problem with your cross Manchester/Salford references.

 

I'd be certain that the 10,000 who used to turn up for big games at the Willows in Snapes time, and the 10,000 who attended the last game at the Willows will come from all over the region.

 

I'm sure that nobody who lives in Manchester supports RL is as false as nobody who lives in Salford supports soccer.

 

It could very easily be the case that more fans could have been in those 10,000 crowds from outside Salford than in it, Not sure when Sale pull 10,000 for a big match they are all from Sale.

 

RL has a wide audience that doesn't fit in convenient boxes and the myth bandied about on here that RL is a local game for local folk and they won't hold with watching another club out of town is just that, a convenient myth to support the maintenance of too many small clubs vying for the same audience.

 

I dunno If Marwan actually wants to buy Oldham and Swinton and maybe Rochdale to shut them down and declare Salford are the only club in town, let's get behind the club, but it might actually be a good idea.

 

Killing Rugby League clubs is a good idea !!.  Some fan you are.



#110 EastLondonMike

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 02:01 PM

Marwan eyes one more signing

 

http://t.co/u9LxFIc5RB

 

£20 says its a new devil mascot, but whatever it is he'll get peoples attention even more, and maybe a few more through the doors. Who said he isn't good for the game?!


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#111 Blackbeard

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 02:06 PM

Killing Rugby League clubs is a good idea !!.  Some fan you are.

Too right , people like him don't give a toss about Champ clubs , unless they become feeder clubs , a case of "I'm alright Jack"...........



#112 Red John

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 02:25 PM

Good post. I have no problem with your cross Manchester/Salford references.

 

I'd be certain that the 10,000 who used to turn up for big games at the Willows in Snapes time, and the 10,000 who attended the last game at the Willows will come from all over the region.

 

I'm sure that nobody who lives in Manchester supports RL is as false as nobody who lives in Salford supports soccer.

 

It could very easily be the case that more fans could have been in those 10,000 crowds from outside Salford than in it, Not sure when Sale pull 10,000 for a big match they are all from Sale.

 

RL has a wide audience that doesn't fit in convenient boxes and the myth bandied about on here that RL is a local game for local folk and they won't hold with watching another club out of town is just that, a convenient myth to support the maintenance of too many small clubs vying for the same audience.

 

I dunno If Marwan actually wants to buy Oldham and Swinton and maybe Rochdale to shut them down and declare Salford are the only club in town, let's get behind the club, but it might actually be a good idea.

The problem with the cross Manchester/Salford references is that, firstly, they're confusing. As a city, Manchester is pretty much a Rugby League desert. They've got, what? one is it? amateur club.and no professional clubs, and yet people seem to think it's ripe for expansion. Secondly, they lead to the lazy assumption that everyone in the north west identifies with Manchester, so if Oldham and Rochdale were shut down, their supporters would automatically flock to Salford as the de facto 'Manchester' club. Nope. They'd just be lost to the professional game. It's not about Salford being the only club in town: it's about Salford being the only club in a different, unrelated town.



#113 The Parksider

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 02:30 PM

Too right , people like him don't give a toss about Champ clubs , unless they become feeder clubs , a case of "I'm alright Jack"...........

 

Really? My club Hunslet have run the course of what it means to be a Championship club. It means over the years your crowds drop and drop because the modern fans want Superleague. In the end your left with debts, losses, and having to go cap in hand to be a feeder club.

 

You are completely and utterly wrong as far as feeder clubs go. I was against Hunslet becoming a feeder club and said so. We had come 9th. in the Championship on 494 crowds, then we linked up with Leeds.

Our identity was gone, we were no longer an independent club but an "A" team - as I said at the time. The result was we came 13th. in the Championship and went down. Crowds next year?? 300?

 

So no I'm not all right at all, apart from having embraced Superleague big time and loved every minute of it.

 

I'm entirely behind people doing what they want. When York collapsed the fans took over, When Bramley collapsed the fans took over, same at Swinton same at Rochdale etc. Fabulous stuff, Rugby league clubs don't die, but they can't buck the trends of the professional game.

 

I just think one day we will just have a smaller number of bigger clubs which makes all the sense in the world. it was what was proposed from the outset. people are free to resist it, people are free to embrace the principle as I do. But the market for RL is the fans want top class Superleague and I want to see them all getting it for the good of the game which I support more than any one club.

 

My interest is certainly not self interest. Who do you support??



#114 The Parksider

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 02:43 PM

The problem with the cross Manchester/Salford references is that, firstly, they're confusing. As a city, Manchester is pretty much a Rugby League desert. They've got, what? one is it? amateur club.and no professional clubs, and yet people seem to think it's ripe for expansion. Secondly, they lead to the lazy assumption that everyone in the north west identifies with Manchester, so if Oldham and Rochdale were shut down, their supporters would automatically flock to Salford as the de facto 'Manchester' club. Nope. They'd just be lost to the professional game.

 

You can keep this myth going. You will be in great company with all the fans of non-SL clubs who argue that if "Oldham and Rochdale were shut down their fans would not go anywhere else" to justify their existence and access to SKY money

 

In 1995 Rochdale had 1,089 fans on average and Oldham 3,889.Total 4,978.

 

Last year the total was 1,210 fans so on the reality of the actual facts 3,768 fans have not only "not gone anywhere else" but haven't even gone to Oldham and Rochdale.

 

Championship clubs crowds have declined year on year for 17 years and I am interested in the idea they should all stay open because if they don't they'll lose fans. The truth is they are losing fans anyway.

 

Warrington 1995 5,380 fans. Warrington today in SL in a modern ground 10,465.

 

Can you tell me John where their extra 5,000 plus fans have come from or am I to assume only Warrington people watch Warrington and nobody from anywhere else in South Lancashire and Cheshire would go watch them?

 

When Hunslet "shut down" in 1973 of course none of us went to watch Leeds - we hated them. Today people from all over south Leeds watch Leeds and don't give a thought to Hunslet.

 

But that's 40 years ago and times change and people change with the times.  Superleague doesn't need to attract diehards, they actually just let them die and attract new fans coming into the game instead.

 

And there is no bar on anyone in Rochdale or Oldham or Swinton deciding to watch Salford, and if Salford grow their crowds markedly I bet a lot of people from those places will be at Barton, just like a lot of them are at the Etihad and not Boundary Park/Spotland or Gigg Lane. don't you?.......


Edited by The Parksider, 07 February 2014 - 02:47 PM.


#115 Middleman

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:10 PM

510XFLrpgnL._.jpg

 

This is a brilliant book on ' Manchester' RL  and great cover photo of the Aussies playing Belle Vue Rangers in the late 40's,  

 

In my ' Yoof' there was no Manchester RL , Broughton / Belle Vue were history , but there was a satellite of ' Big RL clubs ' Salford - Swinton - Oldham - Rochdale .and we  even had Trafford Borough for a while

 

Salford almost blinked out last January , Swinton are in grave danger now , & Rochdale , Oldham are getting by .

 

Now , Old Trafford holds 75,500 and The Etihad is close to add an additional 14,000 capacity to bring there stadium up to 63,000 , close to 140,000 a weekend for the two big boys ,

I've not included Bury FC  BoltonW  Rochdale, or Latics

A snap shot from last season the combined might of Reds ,Lions  ( in leigh ), Hornets & Roughyeds the combined best attendances didn't bust 6,000 , 

If there was a height in Gtr - Manchester RL , we've fallen along way

 

We can half fill the Etihad & almost fill Old Trafford for prestige RL events , but Club rugby has some way to go to re establish itself ,



#116 londonrlfan

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:35 PM

Has it never occurred to some posters that Marwan is exactly what a Sport like Rugby League needs in a metropolis. Given that Manchester is a Soccer City with a strong following for Lancashire Cricket and,whether some of you like or not Sale Sharks. Is it not great that Rugby League has this big personality able to command media headlines, who judging by Red Willow's post is a true fans chairman, grabbing headlines and getting people talking about Rugby League and in particular Salford Rugby League.

 

Love him or loathe him you just can't ignore him, the Good Doctor was even being quoted down here in the deep south where we have a distinctly different Metro edition reflecting the regions priorities. The fact that Marwan is also right on the majority of the main issues is almost a bonus.

 

Salford is strategially important for rugby league and I hope that the team justifies Marwan's investment this year, because a strong Salford in an important media market can only be good for the game. This is not expansion, per se, but represents the best chance league has of regaining lost territory in Manchester.

 

Viva the Red Revolution at Barton !

 

Definitely! I think he's great for the sport, always in the news and promoting the sport positively. He obviously has a lot of passion for the sport, as well as putting his money where his mouth is. We could definitely do with a Dr Koukash down in London!



#117 redjonn

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 04:06 PM

You can keep this myth going. You will be in great company with all the fans of non-SL clubs who argue that if "Oldham and Rochdale were shut down their fans would not go anywhere else" to justify their existence and access to SKY money

 

In 1995 Rochdale had 1,089 fans on average and Oldham 3,889.Total 4,978.

 

Last year the total was 1,210 fans so on the reality of the actual facts 3,768 fans have not only "not gone anywhere else" but haven't even gone to Oldham and Rochdale.

 

Championship clubs crowds have declined year on year for 17 years and I am interested in the idea they should all stay open because if they don't they'll lose fans. The truth is they are losing fans anyway.

 

Warrington 1995 5,380 fans. Warrington today in SL in a modern ground 10,465.

 

Can you tell me John where their extra 5,000 plus fans have come from or am I to assume only Warrington people watch Warrington and nobody from anywhere else in South Lancashire and Cheshire would go watch them?

 

When Hunslet "shut down" in 1973 of course none of us went to watch Leeds - we hated them. Today people from all over south Leeds watch Leeds and don't give a thought to Hunslet.

 

But that's 40 years ago and times change and people change with the times.  Superleague doesn't need to attract diehards, they actually just let them die and attract new fans coming into the game instead.

 

And there is no bar on anyone in Rochdale or Oldham or Swinton deciding to watch Salford, and if Salford grow their crowds markedly I bet a lot of people from those places will be at Barton, just like a lot of them are at the Etihad and not Boundary Park/Spotland or Gigg Lane. don't you?.......

 

Nb:I'm a different redjonn (as distinct from red john)

 

Your question on Warrington is interesting and would be a good to understand why the marked increase.

 

Of course relative success must play a part, as would a modern stadium giving better facilities.

 

Of course demographics of the population must have changed as warrington has had a relatively massive private home building going on over those 20 years not least on area's like the huge old American base and other major home building schemes areas, etc. No doubt pulling in people from the surrounding area's, some of which are rugby interested populations. Although Liverpool too whom one would guess are more football orientated.

 

Would be interesting to understand if its down to marketing efforts from the club or just natural following success and improved facilities.

 

One thing for sure that no matter what the low attendances are for the championship clubs mentioned they need to be helped to keep going in whatever league. Otherwise as each club disappears and gets weaker so the whole sport slowly declines, even if SL gets stronger. Both are needed otherwise the sport won't sustain itself in the long run.



#118 keighley

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 07:31 PM

You can keep this myth going. You will be in great company with all the fans of non-SL clubs who argue that if "Oldham and Rochdale were shut down their fans would not go anywhere else" to justify their existence and access to SKY money

 

In 1995 Rochdale had 1,089 fans on average and Oldham 3,889.Total 4,978.

 

Last year the total was 1,210 fans so on the reality of the actual facts 3,768 fans have not only "not gone anywhere else" but haven't even gone to Oldham and Rochdale.

 

Championship clubs crowds have declined year on year for 17 years and I am interested in the idea they should all stay open because if they don't they'll lose fans. The truth is they are losing fans anyway.

 

Warrington 1995 5,380 fans. Warrington today in SL in a modern ground 10,465.

 

Can you tell me John where their extra 5,000 plus fans have come from or am I to assume only Warrington people watch Warrington and nobody from anywhere else in South Lancashire and Cheshire would go watch them?

 

When Hunslet "shut down" in 1973 of course none of us went to watch Leeds - we hated them. Today people from all over south Leeds watch Leeds and don't give a thought to Hunslet.

 

But that's 40 years ago and times change and people change with the times.  Superleague doesn't need to attract diehards, they actually just let them die and attract new fans coming into the game instead.

 

And there is no bar on anyone in Rochdale or Oldham or Swinton deciding to watch Salford, and if Salford grow their crowds markedly I bet a lot of people from those places will be at Barton, just like a lot of them are at the Etihad and not Boundary Park/Spotland or Gigg Lane. don't you?.......

 

Just one point, in 1995 weren't Oldham in the top division, in their own ground.? Since then they have lost the ground, been a nomad club and sunk to CC1 .Do you think it a remote possibility that all that has had something to do with their haemoraging support.?

 

Do you not also think that if they could reverse these disasters in the coming years that their is enough of a population base and junior club base to see a renaissance of support for the ROUGHYEDS. ?

 

You refuse to consider the loss of 50% of the support base when defending SL failures such as the Bulls but soon quote such losses when putting the boot into Championship Clubs.



#119 The Parksider

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:11 PM

Your question on Warrington is interesting and would be a good to understand why the marked increase. Of course relative success must play a part, as would a modern stadium giving better facilities.Of course demographics of the population must have changed as warrington has had a relatively massive private home building going on over those 20 years not least on area's like the huge old American base and other major home building schemes areas, etc. No doubt pulling in people from the surrounding area's, some of which are rugby interested populations.

 

One thing for sure that no matter what the low attendances are for the championship clubs mentioned they need to be helped to keep going in whatever league. Otherwise as each club disappears and gets weaker so the whole sport slowly declines, even if SL gets stronger. Both are needed otherwise the sport won't sustain itself in the long run.

 

I think there are too many assumptions that people make which suit them so they just keep broadcasting them. Maybe there are a lot more Warrington people hence there are a lot more Warrington fans.

 

For me the truth is from all my anecdotal experience actually talking to fans rather than broadcasting my own desired outcome is that people seek top class RL entertainment and are happy, and have the where withall to go and seek it out, whether that is four lads sharing a car to get to Wigan from Oldham, or a couple of dozen getting the train from Manchester Picadilly to Wigan whilst having a chat with Padge in the process.

 

Do I believe Oldham people will only watch Oldham? Do I believe nobody in Manchester cares for RL? Not at all.

 

Your last quote I make is based on your sureity that each club we lose from semi pro RL is a body blow to RL. In Leeds we lost Bramley and were close to losing Hunslet whilst Leeds were mopping up SL titles.

 

The decline in Championship RL goes like this.....

 

1995 championship clubs averaged  2,118 fans

2013 championship clubs averaged  791

 

1995 First Division clubs averaged  5,543

2013 SL top Division clubs averaged 8,473

 

The facts speak for themselves and whilst the championship clubs have declined at a rate, the Superleague clubs have in turn grown at a much bigger rate. I've no axe to grind at all

 

It just makes sense as per the figures to promote Superleague over the Championship. Superleague gets them going out and seeking games, the championship makes them stay at home. Giving TV money to the Championship is a bad investment. I love the game ans want it to do it's best. Some people only lover their club....Whatever...


Edited by The Parksider, 07 February 2014 - 10:38 PM.


#120 redjonn

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 10:34 AM

I think there are too many assumptions that people make which suit them so they just keep broadcasting them. Maybe there are a lot more Warrington people hence there are a lot more Warrington fans.

 

For me the truth is from all my anecdotal experience actually talking to fans rather than broadcasting my own desired outcome is that people seek top class RL entertainment and are happy, and have the where withall to go and seek it out, whether that is four lads sharing a car to get to Wigan from Oldham, or a couple of dozen getting the train from Manchester Picadilly to Wigan whilst having a chat with Padge in the process.

 

Do I believe Oldham people will only watch Oldham? Do I believe nobody in Manchester cares for RL? Not at all.

 

Your last quote I make is based on your sureity that each club we lose from semi pro RL is a body blow to RL. In Leeds we lost Bramley and were close to losing Hunslet whilst Leeds were mopping up SL titles.

 

The decline in Championship RL goes like this.....

 

1995 championship clubs averaged  2,118 fans

2013 championship clubs averaged  791

 

1995 First Division clubs averaged  5,543

2013 SL top Division clubs averaged 8,473

 

The facts speak for themselves and whilst the championship clubs have declined at a rate, the Superleague clubs have in turn grown at a much bigger rate. I've no axe to grind at all

 

It just makes sense as per the figures to promote Superleague over the Championship. Superleague gets them going out and seeking games, the championship makes them stay at home. Giving TV money to the Championship is a bad investment. I love the game ans want it to do it's best. Some people only lover their club....Whatever...

 

I would agree that for the sport to thrive, promote itself and gain maximum exposure we need a strong SL and that should be a priority - mind you I think a strong international scene would have a far bigger impact but that is another story. Never-the-less the lower levels need to also be viable in whatever form otherwise the sport will be weaker to weather the competition of the entertainment and increasingly global sporting world in the long run.  All I am saying is that championship level needs to be maintained as much as possible whilst recognizing that the whole sport needs as strong a SL as possible.

 

My suggestions as why Warrington fanbase significantly increased was just pondering - it would be interesting to understand why. As my previous post says is it down to great work from the marketing team or just a factor that success and better facilities lead the reasons.   One thing I think is that Warrington with its influx is relatively affluent and hence helps the marketing machine capture  a bigger fanbase. Anyway all speculation but would be interesting to understand,  Then contrast with a Bradford, where I guess the demographics and what would seem declining afflunce leads me to think the Bulls are and will continue on a downward spiral no matter how good the club is managed and able to slow the rate.


Edited by redjonn, 08 February 2014 - 10:41 AM.





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