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Video ref forward passes


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36 replies to this topic

#21 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:58 PM

Oh well, if John Wells says so I'll ignore Isaac Newton

1. Jon Wells didn't say it, I did.

2. In what way does it contradict Isaac Newton's Laws of Motion?
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#22 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:04 PM

It is quite simply impossible fr momentum to account for a forward trajectory measured in metres, the passer would have to be travelling at speeds well in excess of human capability for that to happen, either that or they're on the back of a superbike.

Complete nonsense.

If you run forward at 5m/s and pass the ball flat (relative to yourself), the ball still travels forward at 5m/s (ignoring other forces on it such as wind). That's the constant velocity law of physics for you.

I have no idea where you've got this idea of super speeds from, but it's completely false.

Edited by Wellsy4HullFC, 09 February 2014 - 06:54 PM.

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#23 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 05:25 PM

What is more reliable, a referee / linesman with a split second view or a video replay in slow motion with multiple angles? It seems inconsistent that tries are disallowed for the tiniest fingertip knock on but passes which are clearly forward have to be ignored. If the video is inconclusive, there is benefit of the doubt to allow the try.RU use video refs for forward passes.

#24 Padge

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 06:28 PM

Off side is easier than forward passes, simply because you are looking at two dimensions and not three. 



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#25 bobbruce

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 08:11 PM

Oh well, if John Wells says so I'll ignore Isaac Newton


I'd ask you to explain why me running at 9m per second and throwing a long flat pass would only make the ball travel forward relative to the pitch a few inches but I think I'd be wasting my time.

#26 OMEGA

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 08:19 PM

If you can run at 9m per second while carrying a rugby ball, adjusting your footwork ahead of a likely collision, with your head up and looking for a support player and turning your torso to effect a pass then you are Usain Bolts much faster brother and I claim my £5. at the point the ball left your hands you'd be lucky to be doing 20% of that speed

Also the act of passing backward or flat reduces the velocity of the ball even further, once the ball has left your hands it immediately begins to slow down as well.

None of this, your point or mine, detracts from the fact that technology can remove the doubt over whether a pass is forward or not

Edited by OMEGA, 09 February 2014 - 08:20 PM.


#27 bobbruce

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 08:43 PM

If you can run at 9m per second while carrying a rugby ball, adjusting your footwork ahead of a likely collision, with your head up and looking for a support player and turning your torso to effect a pass then you are Usain Bolts much faster brother and I claim my £5. at the point the ball left your hands you'd be lucky to be doing 20% of that speed

Also the act of passing backward or flat reduces the velocity of the ball even further, once the ball has left your hands it immediately begins to slow down as well.

None of this, your point or mine, detracts from the fact that technology can remove the doubt over whether a pass is forward or not


So let me get this straight you think despite all the great athletes RLs produced. They are moving slower than the Royal Mail expect postmen to deliver letters.

#28 OMEGA

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 10:04 PM

So let me get this straight you think despite all the great athletes RLs produced. They are moving slower than the Royal Mail expect postmen to deliver letters.


At the point at which the ball leaves the hands, everything before that point is irrelevant

#29 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 12:14 AM

If you can run at 9m per second while carrying a rugby ball, adjusting your footwork ahead of a likely collision, with your head up and looking for a support player and turning your torso to effect a pass then you are Usain Bolts much faster brother and I claim my £5. at the point the ball left your hands you'd be lucky to be doing 20% of that speed

20% of 9m is still nearly 2m. That's a lot of inches.

Also the act of passing backward or flat reduces the velocity of the ball even further, once the ball has left your hands it immediately begins to slow down as well.

How does the act of passing the ball flat reduce its velocity? What force acting on the ball would cause such a drastic reduction in velocity from around 5m/s to inches? The wind isn't that strong!

If we were only dealing in inches, the momentum issue wouldn't even be noticeable. The fact that you can throw the ball clearly backwards in an out-the-back-door style pass and it travel forward means you're talking rubbish.
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#30 Old Frightful

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 12:22 AM

At the point at which the ball leaves the hands, everything before that point is irrelevant

I can't quite believe you've drawn me into this but, hey ho.

 

What exactly do you mean by your above quote?

 

If you've got an exceptional athlete sprinting at near 20mph and he throws the ball backwards, are you suggesting that the speed he's moving at up to the moment of passing is irrelevant to the direction in which the ball travels?

 

I can only assume I've misunderstood and apologise if so.


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#31 OMEGA

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 12:56 AM

I can't quite believe you've drawn me into this but, hey ho.

What exactly do you mean by your above quote?

If you've got an exceptional athlete sprinting at near 20mph and he throws the ball backwards, are you suggesting that the speed he's moving at up to the moment of passing is irrelevant to the direction in which the ball travels?

I can only assume I've misunderstood and apologise if so.

You have misunderstood but as Wellsy so confrontationaly says I must be talking rubbish and because wasnt actually looking for a fight or an argument, I'll leave you all to your opinions.

Suffice to say, I beleive that technology could offer us a way of deeming a pass forward whilst accounting for the momentum of the ball.

Edited by OMEGA, 10 February 2014 - 01:03 AM.


#32 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 06:47 AM

You have misunderstood but as Wellsy so confrontationaly says I must be talking rubbish and because wasnt actually looking for a fight or an argument, I'll leave you all to your opinions.

Suffice to say, I beleive that technology could offer us a way of deeming a pass forward whilst accounting for the momentum of the ball.

Just because I'm challenging your opinion doesn't mean I'm being confrontational. What you were saying was incorrect (and it was actually you who first suggested I was wrong and claimed it ignored Isaac Newton).

If we were only dealing in inches, we'd not need the momentum rule. It'd barely be noticeable and we'd just use relative to the pitch. But because it can have upwards of 5m affect from a player sprinting and sending out a looping pass, it needs to be accounted for.
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#33 Old Frightful

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 08:10 AM

I suggest everybody continues thinking their version is correct and this thread is locked.

 

Can I also suggest the mods somehow introduce a "Video Ref Forward Pass Momentum Rule Thread" style of filter, a bit like the one currently in use to hash out swear words.

 

Then we can all get on with our lives.


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#34 JohnM

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 08:40 AM

Not just the laws of motion. You have to solve many complex equations.
Passing player in 4 dims, receiving players in 4 dims and a moving in 4 dims. ...and lots of variable forces to affect the moving ball.

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#35 Griff

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 11:06 AM

Complete nonsense.

If you run forward at 5m/s and pass the ball flat (relative to yourself), the ball still travels forward at 5m/s (ignoring other forces on it such as wind). That's the constant velocity law of physics for you.

I have no idea where you've got this idea of super speeds from, but it's completely false.

 

Have to agree.  Perfectly put.

 

Anyone want to talk about resolving the vector into its horizontal and vertical components ?


Edited by Griff, 10 February 2014 - 11:08 AM.

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#36 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 11:41 AM

Have to agree. Perfectly put.

Anyone want to talk about resolving the vector into its horizontal and vertical components ?

Will that involve a bit if Pythagoras or trigonometry?
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#37 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 11:44 AM

I suggest everybody continues thinking their version is correct and this thread is locked.

Can I also suggest the mods somehow introduce a "Video Ref Forward Pass Momentum Rule Thread" style of filter, a bit like the one currently in use to hash out swear words.

Then we can all get on with our lives.

Or you could use that filter in your mind that controls your hand from clicking into a thread entitled "Video Ref Forward Pass Momentum Rule Thread".

But let's be fair, where would our lives be without an argument about the laws of physics and how they shouldn't apply to rugby league? They'd be empty and floating off into space at a differing momentum in curvy lines, that's where!
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