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British suicide bomber in Syria

Have we learnt nothing?

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#21 808tone

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:21 PM

The Saudi army lot who fought with me in the first Gulf war would be a bit surprised to hear that.

 

Also, the second largest military contingent in the first Gulf war were the Saudis with just shy of 100,000 troops committed in combat and non-combat roles.  Other muslim combat forces involved in the first Gulf war included Syrians, Egyptians, Moroccans, Pakistanis, Omanis and so on, admittedly most were non-combat troops but it's very naive to think that the combat troops were all US and UK

What were the Saudi Army lads like and what did they think of there own oppressed rules of woman and gays ?



#22 Northern Sol

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:14 PM

That's exactly what we do.

 

It's why Western civilisation is the dog's doodads.

No, it's not.

 

Western civilisation is generally rather foolish about turning a blind eye to those who wish us harm.



#23 JohnM

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:16 PM

It's Muslims on both sides, so it's perhaps more akin to the Spanish Civil War than a holy war.

 

Britons who volunteered to fight for the International Brigade in Spain are nowadays looked upon as heroes. If British Muslims are joining the rebels because they want to fight against an oppressor of fellow Muslims, fair enough. However, if they are joining to try and establish their Al Qaeeda credentials, it's not.

 

Either way, they are essentially mercenaries and have gone there willing to kill fellow Muslims. This is an important point because, at the time of both Gulf Wars, the Islamist stance was that no Muslim would be willing to shoot another Muslim, irrespective of separate nationalities being involved.

 

If the foreign fighters in Syria get captured by Assad's forces, Britain should not intercede to help them  in any subsequent court martial or trial.

 

Britons who volunteered to fight for the International Brigade in Spain are nowadays looked upon as heroes

 

Are you quite sure about that?



#24 Northern Sol

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:16 PM

 

Also, I'm not sure that its right to say  "To be fair, we're not really supporting either side"    as Hague seems to be putting his weight behind Assad stepping down.

Diplomatic noise. Hague is doing no more than the minimum that he has to do. The reality is that, on the quiet, the UK / US / Israel would prefer that Assad stays in power.



#25 Northern Sol

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:20 PM

Let's see this "evidence" then and what about Israel occupying the Golan heights and building illegal settlements on there?

It's not surprising that they do. The Golan Heights was where Syria had its mortars and long-range guns set up, they were using it to attack Israel. They were also trying to divert the water supply away from Israel. Without any peace deal between Syria and Israel, there is no way that any sane government would return a strategic territory to a government that has vowed to destroy them.

 

And "illegal settlements" - I imagine that you are thinking about the West Bank. The Golan Heights are a military hot spot. You'd have to be insane to want to live there.



#26 ckn

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:26 PM

What were the Saudi Army lads like and what did they think of there own oppressed rules of woman and gays ?

Erm... you know it wasn't exactly hot on our list of topics of discussion.

 

The poor lad that was assigned to me was seriously unused to cold weather and all he did was whine about the evening temperatures getting down to 10-14C or so.  His day job was as a mechanical engineer and served in their equivalent of the TA.  Strangely excellent at some soldier skills but abysmal at others.  His biggest problem was precision and that's a bit of a nightmare weakness when you're calling in artillery strikes!

 

Post-ground war we were back in Riyadh and were heading out for a Pizza Hut.  A mixed group of us, Saudis and US squaddies, one of the US lot was a woman and the Pizza Hut had a sign on the door "No dogs. No Women", the women were expected to stand by the hatch at the door to be served takeaways.  A nasty old verbal fight between our Saudi lads and the owner buckled with the owner escorting us to a quiet bit and him sweating, probably hoping the local police didn't show up.

 

You know that ginger muslim lad that's been in the news and just got an ASBO for hassling people walking around hand-in-hand?  He'd have been horrified at Riyadh then with good male friends happy to walk around hand-in-hand because it's a sign of friendship.


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#27 Wolford6

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:32 PM

Britons who volunteered to fight for the International Brigade in Spain are nowadays looked upon as heroes

 

Are you quite sure about that?

 

 

I think so, though I'm willing to learn otherwise.

The British volunteers fought against Franco, who was aided by German airforce personnel and weaponry provided by his good mate Adolf Hitler.

 

After the Second World War had finished, anyone who had effectively fought against  Hitler enjoyed an enhanced reputation and respect.


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#28 808tone

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:40 PM

Erm... you know it wasn't exactly hot on our list of topics of discussion.

 

The poor lad that was assigned to me was seriously unused to cold weather and all he did was whine about the evening temperatures getting down to 10-14C or so.  His day job was as a mechanical engineer and served in their equivalent of the TA.  Strangely excellent at some soldier skills but abysmal at others.  His biggest problem was precision and that's a bit of a nightmare weakness when you're calling in artillery strikes!

 

Post-ground war we were back in Riyadh and were heading out for a Pizza Hut.  A mixed group of us, Saudis and US squaddies, one of the US lot was a woman and the Pizza Hut had a sign on the door "No dogs. No Women", the women were expected to stand by the hatch at the door to be served takeaways.  A nasty old verbal fight between our Saudi lads and the owner buckled with the owner escorting us to a quiet bit and him sweating, probably hoping the local police didn't show up.

 

You know that ginger muslim lad that's been in the news and just got an ASBO for hassling people walking around hand-in-hand?  He'd have been horrified at Riyadh then with good male friends happy to walk around hand-in-hand because it's a sign of friendship.

Yeah saw a thing on Egypt with men arm and arm walking around the city...but just wonder how Saudi's squaddies think of us and western life and yet a lot of people in England will look down at Saudi for there backward and hardline religious views yet they are on are side ???



#29 Northern Sol

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:50 PM

 

You know that ginger muslim lad that's been in the news and just got an ASBO for hassling people walking around hand-in-hand?  He'd have been horrified at Riyadh then with good male friends happy to walk around hand-in-hand because it's a sign of friendship.

Not sure that he would.

 

Holding hands with a same-sex friend is obviously perfectly fine and not remotely sexual but holding hands with the opposite sex is bad, m'kay? 



#30 ckn

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:52 PM

Yeah saw a thing on Egypt with men arm and arm walking around the city...but just wonder how Saudi's squaddies think of us and western life and yet a lot of people in England will look down at Saudi for there backward and hardline religious views yet they are on are side ???

Just like most topics out there, the "truth" that people think they know as truth is usually quite wrong when it comes to other cultures, religions and races.  It's what makes me laugh the most, both in humour and in bitter sadness, when I see all the idiot postings from people stereotyping all muslims as one thing when they're quite clearly not.  The general rule I apply is that if someone groups an entire race, religion, or culture as doing something wrong based on the idiot actions of a tiny minority then that person is themselves an idiot.  For example, does a bible-belt frothy mouthed racist creationist Christian spouting Old Testament mis-quotations and deliberate mis-readings really represent a home counties old lady who attends Church on Sundays?

 

Edit:  I really would struggle to count the number of countries I've been in, through the Army, through work and through personal enjoyment, and the thing I get from everywhere is that the vast, vast majority of people just want to get on with life without too many hassles.  If only we could take the intolerant minorities and put them somewhere then we'd have a far better planet.


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#31 Bob8

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:27 AM

I think so, though I'm willing to learn otherwise.

The British volunteers fought against Franco, who was aided by German airforce personnel and weaponry provided by his good mate Adolf Hitler.

 

After the Second World War had finished, anyone who had effectively fought against  Hitler enjoyed an enhanced reputation and respect.

That is my impression also.


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#32 Northern Sol

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:07 AM

I think so, though I'm willing to learn otherwise.

The British volunteers fought against Franco, who was aided by German airforce personnel and weaponry provided by his good mate Adolf Hitler.

 

After the Second World War had finished, anyone who had effectively fought against  Hitler enjoyed an enhanced reputation and respect.

The question is how they were viewed before WW2 started. Were they heroes then? Or were they considered to be dirty commies?



#33 808tone

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:42 AM

Just like most topics out there, the "truth" that people think they know as truth is usually quite wrong when it comes to other cultures, religions and races.  It's what makes me laugh the most, both in humour and in bitter sadness, when I see all the idiot postings from people stereotyping all muslims as one thing when they're quite clearly not.  The general rule I apply is that if someone groups an entire race, religion, or culture as doing something wrong based on the idiot actions of a tiny minority then that person is themselves an idiot.  For example, does a bible-belt frothy mouthed racist creationist Christian spouting Old Testament mis-quotations and deliberate mis-readings really represent a home counties old lady who attends Church on Sundays?

 

Edit:  I really would struggle to count the number of countries I've been in, through the Army, through work and through personal enjoyment, and the thing I get from everywhere is that the vast, vast majority of people just want to get on with life without too many hassles.  If only we could take the intolerant minorities and put them somewhere then we'd have a far better planet.

Thats very true but do find the intolerant minorities seem to be spreading within our own country and like what TV chef Rick Stein said "There are place's in England that look and sound like Bangladesh, then places in Bangladesh itself".



#34 GeordieSaint

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:48 PM

The Saudi army lot who fought with me in the first Gulf war would be a bit surprised to hear that.

 

Also, the second largest military contingent in the first Gulf war were the Saudis with just shy of 100,000 troops committed in combat and non-combat roles.  Other muslim combat forces involved in the first Gulf war included Syrians, Egyptians, Moroccans, Pakistanis, Omanis and so on, admittedly most were non-combat troops but it's very naive to think that the combat troops were all US and UK

 

Probably unknown to a fair few people in the UK, a fair few Middle Eastern and other Muslim nations have been fighting alongside ISAF in Afghanistan since 2001, even in Helmand with the Brits, Danes and Yanks.


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#35 808tone

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:26 PM

Probably unknown to a fair few people in the UK, a fair few Middle Eastern and other Muslim nations have been fighting alongside ISAF in Afghanistan since 2001, even in Helmand with the Brits, Danes and Yanks.

Yeah it's just the Hardline/ Militant Islamic's who are the problem and they are up there with Neo Nazi's and Radical Communists....and Banker's.



#36 Wolford6

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:49 PM

I saw two young Muslim men holding hands in Bradford City Centre this morning. That's definitely a first. I think they must have been students.


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#37 808tone

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:49 PM

I saw two young Muslim men holding hands in Bradford City Centre this morning. That's definitely a first. I think they must have been students.

How did you know they were Muslim.



#38 WearyRhino

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:51 PM

I saw two young Muslim men holding hands in Bradford City Centre this morning. That's definitely a first. I think they must have been students.


How on earth did you know they were Muslims?

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#39 Wolford6

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:32 PM

They looked Arabic.

 

I know it's not what you want to hear but, by and large within their Bradford communites, the ethnic Hindu, Pakistani, Sikh and Arabic men tend to have differing facial profiles. When you've lived here for forty years you can usually make a fairly  accurate guess at their grouping ... particularly because the "Pakistanis" come from a relatively small number of regional communities in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

 

With regard to men, I wouldn't claim to be able to distinguish between a Bangladeshi Bradfordian and a Pakistani Bradfordian, or between, say, an Iraqi, Iranian and Egyptian.

 

With regard to ethnic women wearing western clothes, I wouldn't claim any ability to identify a difference.

 

With regard to the blokes holding hands, it is entirely possible ... but unlikely ... that they were of a non-Muslim community.

 

I would have thought that anyone who saw me would guess that I'm a Celt, though perhaps less so nowadays because my hair has gone grey.


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#40 808tone

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:41 PM

They looked Arabic.

 

I know it's not what you want to hear but, by and large within their Bradford communites, the ethnic Hindu, Pakistani, Sikh and Arabic men tend to have differing facial profiles. When you've lived here for forty years you can usually make a fairly  accurate guess at their grouping ... particularly because the "Pakistanis" come from a relatively small number of regional communities in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

 

With regard to men, I wouldn't claim to be able to distinguish between a Bangladeshi Bradfordian and a Pakistani Bradfordian, or between, say, an Iraqi, Iranian and Egyptian.

 

With regard to ethnic women wearing western clothes, I wouldn't claim any ability to identify a difference.

 

With regard to the blokes holding hands, it is entirely possible ... but unlikely ... that they were of a non-Muslim community.

 

I would have thought that anyone who saw me would guess that I'm a Celt, though perhaps less so nowadays because my hair has gone grey.

Well I am sure the Respect Party will put a stop to this sort of thing.






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