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#1 ckn

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 05:15 PM

1795668_10152238544274604_1154577848_n.j

 

So, that's:

 

- one junior government minister (who has to be there) and a Tory or Lib Dem backbencher who probably was asleep from the last, more important, session. 

- under 10 Labour MPs (you can't really tell because the bottom-right benches are mixed-use.

- maybe a few other MPs

 

Out of 650 elected MPs.  In a subject that's regularly topping the news, for example like this story.   Shameful.  Note, this is not a party political point.


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#2 JohnM

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:00 PM

Outrageous.  We should all write to our MPs to ask why they did not take part.  

 

Look deeper though: the debate was was triggered in response to an e-petition filed in the Government Directgov website that achieved nearly 105,000 signatures. It was a debate not a vote and absence does not mean that MPs are not interested, involved or working hard on behalf of their constituents. 

 

As the pressure group It is in effect a take-note motion, and cannot oblige the government to do more than that. The coalition decided not to oppose it for "we're listening" reasons, though it spoke against the key points. Few government MPs took part in the debate. No Conservatives and only three Liberal Democrats were among the 250 MPs who signed in support of such a debate taking place.  Maybe MPs don't like these petition debates because they are triggered by us not them.

 

In fact reading the Hansard report, it seems that the major (but not the only ) issue is the way ATOS are running the WCA contract started as long ago as  1998 and  renewed for 7 years in 2005. The good news is that ATOS want out and this Govt wants them out.  See http://www.independe...es-9159394.html

 

And as Ekklesia pressure groups reports Minister of State for Disabled People, Mike Penning, said in the debate that he was willing to work with the Centre for Welfare Reform, one of the NGOs backing the WOW (War on Welfare) demands. 

 

Its not just MPs, though. Amazingly, the e petition Stop Holiday companies charging extra in school holidays has already attracted 170, 330 signatures and the petition Ban the sale of young puppies & kittens without their mothers being present has attracted 108,641.

 

Regarding the MPs debating their own salary. In the poster,we are not told when and what that photo refers to. Maybe it was an actual vote.

 

I think my view on MPs pay and perks are probably well known. The govt should be taking radical steps to fund welfare for the most vulnerable by freezing  MPs pay, and indeed all public sector pay for those on over £50K to improve the pay of the lower paid in the public sector.  The so called pay freeze they introduces was not that. I mean no pay rise, no service awards, no bonuses, no increments , no grade changes if you are on £50K or over, no extra holidays.

 

 

Disclosure; My daughter has undergone a number of Work Capability Assessments with ATOS , though she has just been told she will not have to undertake another one for at least two years.



#3 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:35 PM

Without knowing what stage or type of debate is happening in the pictures it's hard to judge.

 

Makes a good meme to bash them with though.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#4 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:41 PM

Julian Huppert MP suggests that the second picture is actually from the Syria debate, not MP's pay.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#5 Wolford6

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:01 AM

http://www.dailymail...-came-vote.html


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#6 Griff9of13

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:26 PM

 

Quite similar to Alan Clark's diaries; the Tory party was (and possibly still is) just an extension of being public school for far too many. All jolly japes in the company of like-minded chums and very little to do with actually making the country better. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#7 JohnM

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:23 PM

I really do think that the vast majority of MPs (and their paid workers) on all sides work hard especially for their constituencies and constituents.  I don't think that being an MP is all about being in the House all day every day. There really is a lot more to it than that. Of course, screwing the expenses and secretaries is the sort of thing that get them noticed in the media.



#8 JohnM

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:36 PM

Julian Huppert MP suggests that the second picture is actually from the Syria debate, not MP's pay.

 

no, that's can't possibly be true. Why would the non-party-political  "Resist the War on Welfare"  seek to mislead in this way? Pure as teh driven snow.    Non-party-political in that they cite their  allies to include The Green Party, Unison, the PCS Union, Labour Left, The Liberal Conspiracy, No to the UK Coalition, Unison and Unite. 



#9 ckn

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:56 PM

no, that's can't possibly be true. Why would the non-party-political  "Resist the War on Welfare"  seek to mislead in this way? Pure as teh driven snow.    Non-party-political in that they cite their  allies to include The Green Party, Unison, the PCS Union, Labour Left, The Liberal Conspiracy, No to the UK Coalition, Unison and Unite. 

The second photo MIGHT be inaccurate but the first one certainly isn't.  Diversionary tactics from the main issue that Parliament just doesn't give a damn about the subject of how welfare reforms effects on the sick and disabled.


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#10 Trojan

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:15 PM

Quite similar to Alan Clark's diaries; the Tory party was (and possibly still is) just an extension of being public school for far too many. All jolly japes in the company of like-minded chums and very little to do with actually making the country better. 

I remember reading somewhere that most Tory MP's are only in it to further their personal interests and those of their mates.  That's why it's very important to them that there's a Tory government, and why a Labour (or any other colour) government is a disaster for them, because they have no influence with non Tory ministers.


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#11 Grollo

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:55 PM

Julian Huppert MP suggests that the second picture is actually from the Syria debate, not MP's pay.

If I were called Julian, I'd make any excuse.


What you are aware of you are in control of; what you are not aware of is in control of you.

#12 Grollo

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 05:59 PM

I really do think that the vast majority of MPs (and their paid workers) on all sides work hard especially for their constituencies and constituents. 

You haven't had the pleasure of having Craig Whittaker as your local MP.


What you are aware of you are in control of; what you are not aware of is in control of you.

#13 JohnM

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:03 PM

I remember reading somewhere that most Tory MP's are only in it to further their personal interests and those of their mates.  That's why it's very important to them that there's a Tory government, and why a Labour (or any other colour) government is a disaster for them, because they have no influence with non Tory ministers.

 

Surely you still  don't take "The Dandy"?  :yes:



#14 Trojan

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 08:18 AM

Surely you still  don't take "The Dandy"?  :yes:

It's a better read than the Mail John..  Come to think of it the back of a bleach bottle is a better read than the Mail.


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#15 JohnM

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:42 AM

Wouldn't know about that. I neither read bleach bottles nor the Mail, but occasionally I read the HP Sauce bottle, hence my intimate knowledge of The Houses of Parliament.  :biggrin:



#16 Bigal02

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:35 AM

I really do think that the vast majority of MPs (and their paid workers) on all sides work hard especially for their constituencies and constituents.  I don't think that being an MP is all about being in the House all day every day. There really is a lot more to it than that. Of course, screwing the expenses and secretaries is the sort of thing that get them noticed in the media.

My admittedly simplistic view is this.  An MP's  primary function is to vote on legislature.  I agree that constituents may need help, but a lot of the time they can get assistance elsewhere, C.A.B, or a solicitor for example, whereas, only MP's can cast votes in the Commons.  It is their duty to vote when there is a motion to vote on.

 

They wouldn't have to sit through every debate as they could get a précis of the arguments of either side, and do their constituency work then.

 

I would pay them on their voting record, by dividing their salary by the number of divisions they voted on, and then pay them proportionally.   Abstentions would not be allowed, as that usually means that they don't agree with the party whip, but they don't have the b@lls to vote against their party.



#17 JohnM

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:47 PM

This what they think they should be doing: http://www.parliamen...ds/members/mps/

 

The second photo MIGHT be inaccurate but the first one certainly isn't.  Diversionary tactics from the main issue that Parliament just doesn't give a damn about the subject of how welfare reforms effects on the sick and disabled.

 

 

Is that really  right, though? I don't think it is.  In my view, in the current absence of any effective opposition in Parliament, single issue  alliances will always do their best to present their case  in the best way they can, rubbishing people they see as opposition and using symbolic images to reinforce their point, even if not strictly a fair representation.   I may have missed it but how many MPs were actually in the house for this  event, which was  generally regarded, it seems as a success with or without MPs present; see http://disabilitynew...heir-next-move/

 

 

Anyway, what does WoW actually want? 


Edited by JohnM, 06 March 2014 - 12:48 PM.





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