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Bob Crow


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#21 Saintslass

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:40 AM

If the Tories, the daily mail and other right wing rags have you in their sights like bob crow was you're doing something right for the 99% and sticking it to the ruling elitist 1%. The working class lost a warrior and a fighter today and the world is a poorer place.

That's the kind of ignorant rhetoric he was well known for and I certainly won't miss.  I read the Times or Telegraph so I guess that puts me in the 'ruling elitist 1%'.  Unemployed and living in a two up, two down.  What a way to rule! 



#22 walter sobchak

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:02 AM

That's the kind of ignorant rhetoric he was well known for and I certainly won't miss.  I read the Times or Telegraph so I guess that puts me in the 'ruling elitist 1%'.  Unemployed and living in a two up, two down.  What a way to rule!

No that doesn't put you with the ruling elitist 1% because they aren't unemployed and living in a two up two down. You're a classic example of prescribing to what Karl Marx described as the false consciousness, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, get on your bike and look for work, it's your fault your unemployed and poor etc. all the usual thatcherite Tory BS.

#23 Griff9of13

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:09 AM

I think all too many people are happy to accept Bob Crow as he was portrayed in certain sections of the media, some sort of ultra left wing demon. Listening to Radio 4 yesterday afternoon to the people who actually knew him he sounded much different. According to them, both friends and adversaries alike, he was a thoughtful and skilled negotiator on behalf of his members with the pragmatism to seek out compromise where possible and often went out of his way to avoid strike action. What also is in no doubt was his love and passion for his industry. The railways are almost unique in that respect, that many of those working for the railways are real fans of the railways. 

 

Anyway, don't take my word for it, read more here: Tributes to RMT leader


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#24 Saintslass

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:41 AM

No that doesn't put you with the ruling elitist 1% because they aren't unemployed and living in a two up two down. You're a classic example of prescribing to what Karl Marx described as the false consciousness, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, get on your bike and look for work, it's your fault your unemployed and poor etc. all the usual thatcherite Tory BS.

The Tories existed long before Thatcher you know.  I'm a voting Tory and working class.  The likes of Bob Crow and others who follow in his ideological footsteps can't get their heads around that combo, yet there are plenty of us around.  We don't all see ourselves as downtrodden no-hopers who have to blame one particular shade of government for everything.



#25 Ackroman

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:52 AM

How else can working people expect to gain better pay, benefits and working conditions by not being tough and willing to stand up and fight against their bosses? And who else is going to fight for them, the politicians? The political party's? Their bosses?

 

Absolutely. Without this attitude and the labour movement we would all still be under the stairs polishing the brass.



#26 walter sobchak

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:55 AM

The Tories existed long before Thatcher you know.  I'm a voting Tory and working class.  The likes of Bob Crow and others who follow in his ideological footsteps can't get their heads around that combo, yet there are plenty of us around.  We don't all see ourselves as downtrodden no-hopers who have to blame one particular shade of government for everything.


I don't see working class people as downtrodden and no-hoppers quite the opposite infact, if it wasn't for the likes of bob crow, trade unionists and old labour that's exactly what the working class would be.

#27 Ackroman

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:58 AM

The Tories existed long before Thatcher you know.  I'm a voting Tory and working class.  The likes of Bob Crow and others who follow in his ideological footsteps can't get their heads around that combo, yet there are plenty of us around.  We don't all see ourselves as downtrodden no-hopers who have to blame one particular shade of government for everything.

 

I grew up on a council estate and half of them were Tories, I think it stemmed from loyalty and an overriding acceptance of ones circumstances. Now I'm 45 I look back on my youth and I believe it was a lingering nostalgia for how it was in the past that brought misty tears to their eyes when they voted.

 

I listened to my dad and didn't trust the Tory ###### about "Great" Britain etc. It seems Bob Crow didn't either. 



#28 Griff9of13

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:58 AM

The Tories existed long before Thatcher you know.  I'm a voting Tory and working class.  The likes of Bob Crow and others who follow in his ideological footsteps can't get their heads around that combo, yet there are plenty of us around.  We don't all see ourselves as downtrodden no-hopers who have to blame one particular shade of government for everything.

 

From what I've read and heard about him, neither did he about himself or those he represented. In fact far from it, he wanted recognition for his members for the contribution they made to the running of the railways. Sounds far from downtrodden to me. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#29 ckn

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:36 AM

Yes anyone who promotes ridiculous ideas like workers having rights and not simply agreeing with any ridiculous penny pinching scheme that management come up with is obviously a bully.

While the directors of large companies never make people redundant just to show they're "doing something" or give workers grudged tiny pay rises while themselves double digit pay rises. They're all sweetness and light who need to be protected from these nasty unions.

Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#30 gingerjon

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:50 AM

From what I've read and heard about him, neither did he about himself or those he represented. In fact far from it, he wanted recognition for his members for the contribution they made to the running of the railways. Sounds far from downtrodden to me. 

 

A quote went round yesterday, apparently from Bob Crow, saying that the reason he fought hard was so that his members could have through working what the likes of Cameron got through birth.

 

I fail to see anything wrong with that.


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#31 walter sobchak

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:08 AM

A quote went round yesterday, apparently from Bob Crow, saying that the reason he fought hard was so that his members could have through working what the likes of Cameron got through birth.
 
I fail to see anything wrong with that.

Good quote and right to the point.

#32 ckn

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:27 AM

I'm sorry, but, for me, there are echoes of Arthur Scargill in his personality.

 

I will remember him as an arrogant necessary cog in Britain's political and industrial relations regimes. Just a cog, not the whole flywheel.

He was nothing like Scargill.  Scargill was a narcissistic idiot who was very easily baited into the big shiny trap laid by Thatcher so that she could enact all the trades union reform that she wanted.  I blame Scargill and cronies just as much as Thatcher for the demise of unions from many places.  His naked self-interest came completely at the expense of the loyal miners within the union.  We're now at the point where unions have lost the battle entirely in most private sectors and no longer try.

 

An example:  One company I was a contractor in laid off a flat 10% of the workforce to "cut costs", despite it still being a very profitable company.  That wasn't the problem though, the remaining staff were told bluntly they had to take up the slack of the staff let go.  At the end of that financial year, the company's profits were down by a few %, partly because of the redundancy payouts and partly because there were 10% fewer staff, so all staff were told that there would be no pay rises that year.  Didn't impact director and senior manager level bonuses though...  Can you imagine that sort of management mispractice if they had a unionised workforce?


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#33 Wolford6

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:46 AM

It would be a fitting tribute if the undertakers went on strike.


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#34 Griff9of13

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:51 AM

It would be a fitting tribute if the undertakers went on strike.

 

Why?


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#35 Tiny Tim

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:32 PM

Why?

 

To demand a pay rise of course.


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#36 Wolford6

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:41 PM

Why?

Unseemly comment edited out.


Edited by Wolford6, 12 March 2014 - 12:44 PM.

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#37 Steve May

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:34 PM

The Tories existed long before Thatcher you know.  I'm a voting Tory and working class.  The likes of Bob Crow and others who follow in his ideological footsteps can't get their heads around that combo, yet there are plenty of us around. 

 

Many years ago I used to go drinking at Oxford University Conservative Association bashes.  They didn't require you to join, cost a fiver or so and had unlimited cocktails.  All you had to do was put up with the OUCA types for an hour or so and you could get trashed very cheaply.   Happy days.

 

What that taught me about the Tories was that they actually laugh at people like you.  

 

You are a voting Tory and working class.    Sure, I think you're a fool but what's worse is the Tories that you support think so too.

 

This is the breeding ground for top Tories, and they hate you.  They really do.


That's me.  I'm done.


#38 Wolford6

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:07 PM


You are a voting Tory and working class.    Sure, I think you're a fool but what's worse is the Tories that you support think so too.

 

This is the breeding ground for top Tories, and they hate you.  They really do.

 

Yes, but, as far as I can interpret, Bob Crow thought the Labour Party was for fools.


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#39 walter sobchak

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:11 PM

Yes, but, as far as I can interpret, Bob Crow thought the Labour Party was for fools.


New labour that is.

#40 Shadow

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:34 PM

Many years ago I used to go drinking at Oxford University Conservative Association bashes.  They didn't require you to join, cost a fiver or so and had unlimited cocktails.  All you had to do was put up with the OUCA types for an hour or so and you could get trashed very cheaply.   Happy days.

 

What that taught me about the Tories was that they actually laugh at people like you.  

 

You are a voting Tory and working class.    Sure, I think you're a fool but what's worse is the Tories that you support think so too.

 

This is the breeding ground for top Tories, and they hate you.  They really do.

University students are rarely a good indication of the attitudes of wider society, the braying Bullingdon boys are as unrepresentative as Dave Spart and the class warriors in the Socialist Workers Cooperative support society.


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