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Why Private is Always Better Than Public.


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#21 marklaspalmas

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:53 PM

A friend has just moved house, she informed Barclay's Bank that she had changed her address.

 

They sent a thank you letter stating "Thank you for informing of us of your change of address" to her old address.

 

More efficient my arris.

 

That's class. :tongue:


 

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#22 Dave T

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 04:14 PM

Privatisation and Public companies both have their upsides and downsides. Privatisation doesn't seem to have many of the benefits that it is heralded for and regardless of what they say is inevitably almost never customer focussed. However, I find that dealing with some sections of the public sector can be infuriating especially customer service. Too often there are people that unhelpful and just unfriendly and they are able to stay in their job without the checks and balances that the private sector might have. I'm not saying that the Private sector is perfect but I worked in customer service for a while and know that there is only so long that somebody would get away with talking to customers the way they might do at the doctors, the clinic or the council. Yet you know that in the Public sector they've often been there for 25 years and see the general public as a nuisance.

Indeed, ultimately they are all just companies and will have similar people running them no matter what.

 

I have had wonderful experiences with private companies and awful experiences too.

 

Some of my worst levels of service in the last few years has been through the NHS, although I should probably be grateful to them for my treatment when I had clots on my lungs, although without me taking charge, it could have ended up much worse as they were simply horrendous at follow up treatment once they allowed me to go home.



#23 Dave T

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 04:15 PM

A friend has just moved house, she informed Barclay's Bank that she had changed her address.

 

They sent a thank you letter stating "Thank you for informing of us of your change of address" to her old address.

 

More efficient my arris.

Is that a true story? I'm really not sure why a bank would write a letter just to say thanks for telling us something.



#24 ckn

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 04:20 PM

Is that a true story? I'm really not sure why a bank would write a letter just to say thanks for telling us something.

I asked a friend this over coffee about 10 minutes ago, she works for a bank's customer services.  She said that's perfectly acceptable practice sending it to the old address as it then catches out fraudsters who've intercepted enough information to get an account address changed, they've caught out a good few in the past just with this and people calling up saying "I've not changed anything!"  Their assumption is that if you've moved genuinely then you'll have a redirection service in place or they'll get it back as undeliverable.


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#25 Trojan

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 04:57 PM

The rail services weren't privatised in 1995.  The process began in 1993 with an act of parliament and was completed by the Labour government after they took office in 1997.

, You are wrong the privatisation happened in 1995, I went to Edinburgh in August 1995 on GNER.

http://en.wikipedia....of_British_Rail

"The Labour government (elected in 1997 once almost all of the privatisation process had been completed)"


Edited by Trojan, 14 March 2014 - 05:00 PM.

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#26 Dave T

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 05:20 PM

I asked a friend this over coffee about 10 minutes ago, she works for a bank's customer services.  She said that's perfectly acceptable practice sending it to the old address as it then catches out fraudsters who've intercepted enough information to get an account address changed, they've caught out a good few in the past just with this and people calling up saying "I've not changed anything!"  Their assumption is that if you've moved genuinely then you'll have a redirection service in place or they'll get it back as undeliverable.

Aye that makes sense, I expect it is done on a tactical basis rather than to everyone.  These days I'd expect more checks to be done by SMS or email.



#27 Griff9of13

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 10:10 AM

I have to say that I'm not completely against the private sector, I've worked in nothing but the private sector all my life. What I am against is the idea that the private sector model is always right and that forcing this model artificiality onto services where it doesn't naturally belong or where service should be valued above profit is wrong. I would also argue that market forces can not be used to drive up standards where a previously nationalised service is artificiality broken up and shared out. For market forces to work properly there needs to be real choice at the point of use by those consuming the service. This is why the likes of the rail privatisation has, in my view, been a failure. There is virtually no choice for the consumer, just 24 regional monopolies. And without choice there is no effective competition. The same applies to water companies and to a lesser extent the power companies (yes, you can change supplier but few people do. And if you do, it's still the same gas or electricity coming down the pipe or wire. There is no scope for 'added value'. |No one companies gas burns hotter or electricity runs more efficiently than another's, it's just the same bog standard product no matter who you buy it from).

 

And then you have the NHS. What the politicians don't seem able to grasp is that the idea of competing for business is completely alien to clinicians. They went into the medical profession to serve, to heal the sick. Not to try and run an 'internal market' with hospitals trying to vie for one another's business. A dafter example of trying to force a square peg into a round hole I have yet to see. If I'm ill I don't want choice, I just want to be made better as soon as possible. I don't see how diverting scarce resources to competition between NHS hospitals and marketing when the people running hospitals have no knowledge, skill or desire to be marketeers can make me better quicker. 


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#28 WearyRhino

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 10:54 AM

I went to A&E early this week with a friend. After excellent prompt treatment, on exiting the department we were asked to place a green plastic counter into a set of boxes indicating on a scale of "extremely likely" through to "extremely unlikely" "how likely we were to recommend York A&E to family and friends".

I despair!

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#29 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:42 AM

I have to say that I'm not completely against the private sector, I've worked in nothing but the private sector all my life. What I am against is the idea that the private sector model is always right and that forcing this model artificiality onto services where it doesn't naturally belong or where service should be valued above profit is wrong. I would also argue that market forces can not be used to drive up standards where a previously nationalised service is artificiality broken up and shared out. For market forces to work properly there needs to be real choice at the point of use by those consuming the service. This is why the likes of the rail privatisation has, in my view, been a failure. There is virtually no choice for the consumer, just 24 regional monopolies. And without choice there is no effective competition. The same applies to water companies and to a lesser extent the power companies (yes, you can change supplier but few people do. And if you do, it's still the same gas or electricity coming down the pipe or wire. There is no scope for 'added value'. |No one companies gas burns hotter or electricity runs more efficiently than another's, it's just the same bog standard product no matter who you buy it from).

 

And then you have the NHS. What the politicians don't seem able to grasp is that the idea of competing for business is completely alien to clinicians. They went into the medical profession to serve, to heal the sick. Not to try and run an 'internal market' with hospitals trying to vie for one another's business. A dafter example of trying to force a square peg into a round hole I have yet to see. If I'm ill I don't want choice, I just want to be made better as soon as possible. I don't see how diverting scarce resources to competition between NHS hospitals and marketing when the people running hospitals have no knowledge, skill or desire to be marketeers can make me better quicker. 

I think the point is that for any given procedure say "heart transplants" as a given example, some hospitals will inevitably be better at them than others. If there are a number of hospitals in a given area and they all do heart transplants then it makes sense to try to push more resources and more patients towards the better hospital.

 

Whether it works in practice is another thing but the theory is there.



#30 Dave T

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:47 PM

I think the point is that for any given procedure say "heart transplants" as a given example, some hospitals will inevitably be better at them than others. If there are a number of hospitals in a given area and they all do heart transplants then it makes sense to try to push more resources and more patients towards the better hospital.

Whether it works in practice is another thing but the theory is there.

plus, its all well and good people wanting to serve the sick, but they do need people managing processed, structures etc to make sure it works. I have seen stunning incompetence from the NHS in the last couple of years, As well as excellent care i should add, but it is clear that many of the systems and processes in place are simply not fit for purpose.

#31 Ackroman

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 01:25 PM

Is that a true story? I'm really not sure why a bank would write a letter just to say thanks for telling us something.

6 years ago I bought a new house. As things stood we agreed a mortgage with a high street bank in branch, in Halifax and completed on the purchase.

 

The bank sent the mortgage offer to the new address so we couldn't confirm our agreed mortgage until we had actually completed. It turns out our offer was very different to what we agreed in branch. We had agreed a tracker mortgage but what we got was fixed rates at 7.9% in a climate of rapidly falling interest rates. It took us 5 years to prove we never agreed to the mortgage and we could prove it because they had sent the offer to an address we didn't have keys to! 

 

Suffice to say the bank compensated us for 5 years of over payments amounting to 10's of thousands. It turns out that our mortgage advisor made more bonus fiddling the offer to suit her and the bank rather than us. This bank used to be a building society and is now part of the Lloyds Group that is under government ownership. We were taken seriously once the bank was in government hands having spent the previous 5 years being ignored.

 

I don't trust any privately run business that supplies the consumer market, particularly where you are legally obliged or have no choice to use their services. We currently have 2 cases with the financial ombudsman over insurance issues. One of the cases is regarding a clause that essentially allows the insurance company to use any condition to refuse a claim. This is a well known on-line company. The other is a bespoke insurance firm for farmers that refuses to acknowledge a clerical mistake that led my wife to be taken to court for lack of insurance on a vehicle. We will win both cases.

 

Having said that, I went to the DVLA office in Leeds yesterday to find it is shut....



#32 stimpo-and-kat

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 01:35 PM

plus, its all well and good people wanting to serve the sick, but they do need people managing processed, structures etc to make sure it works. I have seen stunning incompetence from the NHS in the last couple of years, As well as excellent care i should add, but it is clear that many of the systems and processes in place are simply not fit for purpose.


My sales manager surveyed fuel tanks at an RAF base, they employed 2 guys whose job it was to dip the tanks and record.fuel levels. We proposed remote level monitoring systems with automatic ordering of new fuel and response we got back was 'but.what will our two guys do?'

#33 Trojan

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 03:28 PM

 

And then you have the NHS. What the politicians don't seem able to grasp is that the idea of competing for business is completely alien to clinicians. They went into the medical profession to serve, to heal the sick. Not to try and run an 'internal market' with hospitals trying to vie for one another's business. A dafter example of trying to force a square peg into a round hole I have yet to see. If I'm ill I don't want choice, I just want to be made better as soon as possible. I don't see how diverting scarce resources to competition between NHS hospitals and marketing when the people running hospitals have no knowledge, skill or desire to be marketeers can make me better quicker. 

That's more or less what I said would happen on this subject on this forum when the NHS "reforms"  :shout: were first introduced by Lansley. Doctors are clever men but they are not MBA's. They are withdrawing from the business side of the new set-ups and allowing professional managers (BDO etc) to run the NHS.  These companies sponsored Lansley etc when he was in opposition and now it's payback time.


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#34 Saintslass

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 04:03 PM

, "The Labour government (elected in 1997 once almost all of the privatisation process had been completed)"

As I said, the railway wasn't privatised in 1995.  You've even quoted yourself that it was completed by 1997, which is what I said!

 

And the privatisation was begun in 1993 with the Railways Act.  Since you referenced Wiki, here's another one:

 

http://en.wikipedia....ilways_Act_1993

 

The privatisation of the railway was a process which John Major's government began and Tony Blair's government completed (which I believe broke a pre election promise to re nationalise the railways).



#35 Trojan

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 04:51 PM

As I said, the railway wasn't privatised in 1995.  You've even quoted yourself that it was completed by 1997, which is what I said!

 

And the privatisation was begun in 1993 with the Railways Act.  Since you referenced Wiki, here's another one:

 

http://en.wikipedia....ilways_Act_1993

 

The privatisation of the railway was a process which John Major's government began and Tony Blair's government completed (which I believe broke a pre election promise to re nationalise the railways).

Most of the privatisation had happened by the time Labour came into power. If Labour win in 2015, I hope they will allow the franchises to lapse and run the railways as a public corporation. East Cost Trains have proved that it is possible for a publicly owned railway to make money.  The taxpayer and the travelling public are being ripped off by the likes of Virgin, First and Stagecoach.


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#36 bearman

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 05:02 PM

My sales manager surveyed fuel tanks at an RAF base, they employed 2 guys whose job it was to dip the tanks and record.fuel levels. We proposed remote level monitoring systems with automatic ordering of new fuel and response we got back was 'but.what will our two guys do?'

They don't only dip for level but also for water contamination from condensation.
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#37 Zagrebred

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 05:38 PM

There has not been one "Publicly owned" service that has been privatised, and gone on to supply a better, more efficent service to it's customers

 

BT

Gas

Electric

Railways

Buses

Water

BBC

NHS (PPI building investments)

 

etc, etc etc


Edited by Zagrebred, 15 March 2014 - 05:39 PM.

Hello London ARL viewers


#38 gazza77

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 05:50 PM

I went to A&E early this week with a friend. After excellent prompt treatment, on exiting the department we were asked to place a green plastic counter into a set of boxes indicating on a scale of "extremely likely" through to "extremely unlikely" "how likely we were to recommend York A&E to family and friends".

I despair!

That's because hospitals are rated on "friends and family" ratings and have to achieve a certain percentage of attendees providing a rating. Daft but true!

http://www.nhs.uk/NH...amily-test.aspx

Edited by gazza77, 15 March 2014 - 05:54 PM.

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#39 stimpo-and-kat

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:46 PM

They don't only dip for level but also for water contamination from condensation.


We were quoting for fuel polishing systems. These guys were dipping fuel levels.

#40 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:57 PM

There has not been one "Publicly owned" service that has been privatised, and gone on to supply a better, more efficent service to it's customers

 

BT

Gas

Electric

Railways

Buses

Water

BBC

NHS (PPI building investments)

 

etc, etc etc

I'd dispute pretty much all the above except buses and trains. The NHS has not been privatised despite PPI and the BBC certainly hasn't.






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