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Tony Benn


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35 replies to this topic

#1 walter sobchak

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 10:27 AM

R.I.P. tony Benn the greatest prime minister this country never had, a man that fought all his life for the underdog and little people and a giant of left-Wing politics in Britain. My hero.

#2 Johnoco

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 10:40 AM

A very fine guy who was incredibly intelligent. So he had a good start in life, didn't stop him from being a good guy.

And I disagree with plenty of what he said. RIP

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

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#3 Phil

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:03 PM

A very fine guy who was incredibly intelligent. So he had a good start in life, didn't stop him from being a good guy.

And I disagree with plenty of what he said. RIP


We'll said John I disagreed fundamentally with much of what he said but he was that rare creature a politician who not only had principles but actually kept them.
"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#4 Northern Sol

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 01:53 PM

I fundamentally disagree with almost everything he said but he seemed a decent human being. RIP.



#5 Shadow

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:11 PM

A man that had a vision and the drive to push that vision through.

As others have said I disagreed with a lot of what he said but have to admire his conviction and principles


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#6 johnmatrix

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 07:45 PM

didnt agree with everything he said, but a real politician, who had an ideology and stuck to it, a man of principle, unlike many of the terrible people involved in politics now. 

"If democracy is destroyed in Britain it will be not the communists, Trotskyists or subversives but this House which threw it away. The rights that are entrusted to us are not for us to give away. Even if I agree with everything that is proposed, I cannot hand away powers lent to me for five years by the people of Chesterfield. I just could not do it. It would be theft of public rights."

During a debate in the House of Commons on the Maastricht Treaty on 20 November 1991.



#7 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 09:16 PM

I think someone said of him he made a lot of enemies and had the principles to keep them

#8 Padge

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:54 AM

The only thing he got wrong was his stock.

 

It provided ammunition for his enemies.  

 

Top bloke.

 

R.I.P.



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#9 Padge

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:58 AM

I just thought, he didn't do weazle words,

 

I want more politicians like that.



Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
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This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#10 Trojan

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 01:06 AM

I've no doubt he was sincere and a great speaker, but the fact remains that Labour has always been a coalition, and Tony split that coalition, and allowed Thatcher to rule for 11 years. RIP


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#11 WearyRhino

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:01 AM

I've no doubt he was sincere and a great speaker, but the fact remains that Labour has always been a coalition, and Tony split that coalition, and allowed Thatcher to rule for 11 years. RIP


Firstly, I think the idea that the schism in the Labour Party won Thatcher the 83 election is enormously overstated it had as much if not more to do with the Falklands war. Secondly, Labour is indeed a 'broad church' coalition which is both it's strength and weakness. However, it has always been the right in the party who have driven the wedge (sic!) in to widen the gap and force the 'split' - expulsions galore followed the formation of the 1931 National Government and have continued throughout the party's history. Thirdly, the SDP had more to do with the self-serving ambitions for political office of the gang of four than ideology.

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#12 Trojan

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:26 AM

Firstly, I think the idea that the schism in the Labour Party won Thatcher the 83 election is enormously overstated it had as much if not more to do with the Falklands war. Secondly, Labour is indeed a 'broad church' coalition which is both it's strength and weakness. However, it has always been the right in the party who have driven the wedge (sic!) in to widen the gap and force the 'split' - expulsions galore followed the formation of the 1931 National Government and have continued throughout the party's history. Thirdly, the SDP had more to do with the self-serving ambitions for political office of the gang of four than ideology.

I think that's a bit harsh.  I think Shirley Williams was sincere. Whilst I'm not keen on Jenkins, you have to say that he'd "been there, done that, got  the tee shirt" so I reckon his ambitions were possibly sated.  You can't say that for David Owen of course, as for William Rodgers - a nonentity really. But I think Benn was very ambitious.  He engineered Foot into the leadership, I reckon thinking that Foot could be easily disposed of.  Healy should have led Labour from 1979 onwards, but Callaghan (to blame for the '79 defeat anyway) hung on too long and then resigned at the worst possible moment for the party and Healy.  I don't think Tony did Labour any favours during the eighties, and in the end he fell into his own trap when after the disaster of 1983, the party skipped a generation in opting for Kinnock.  People deride Kinnock as lightweight, but he took on a defeated, disorganised, divided rabble and in just under ten years made them look electable.  Without Kinnock's reforms and courage there'd have been no 1997 Labour landslide.

BTW did anyone notice the story at the weekend that Owen  had made a donation to Labour.  He thinks they are the only party that can save the NHS. 


Edited by Trojan, 15 March 2014 - 10:07 AM.

"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#13 Griff9of13

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:46 AM

I can't post videos properly on my phone - maybe someone could repost a little better, but here is an example of the sort of oratory that made the man great!

https://www.youtube....bed/ETqOvBKnKdk

 

I know this was posted in the RIP thread, but it's worth repeating here:

 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#14 WearyRhino

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 10:37 AM

I think that's a bit harsh. I think Shirley Williams was sincere. Whilst I'm not keen on Jenkins, you have to say that he'd "been there, done that, got the tee shirt" so I reckon his ambitions were possibly sated. You can't say that for David Owen of course, as for William Rodgers - a nonentity really. But I think Benn was very ambitious. He engineered Foot into the leadership, I reckon thinking that Foot could be easily disposed of. Healy should have led Labour from 1979 onwards, but Callaghan (to blame for the '79 defeat anyway) hung on too long and then resigned at the worst possible moment for the party and Healy. I don't think Tony did Labour any favours during the eighties, and in the end he fell into his own trap when after the disaster of 1983, the party skipped a generation in opting for Kinnock. People deride Kinnock as lightweight, but he took on a defeated, disorganised, divided rabble and in just under ten years made them look electable. Without Kinnock's reforms and courage there'd have been no 1997 Labour landslide.
BTW did anyone notice the story at the weekend that Owen had made a donation to Labour. He thinks they are the only party that can save the NHS.

Labour has always been a divided rabble. It's the nature of the party and has been since it's genesis. Indeed it was it's raison d'etre - bringing together the many parts of the Labour Movement under one banner. For most of the party's history the left were defeated by a right leaning political elite that lead the party despite the left being overwhelmingly the majority in the party's individual membership and non-craft trade unions. When a very broad alliance of leftists began to get footholds of control in local parties and unions, the right cried foul (yet again) and some thought their own political ambitions would be served elsewhere. Kinnock brought the party 'together' by expulsion, moving to the right, cosying up to capital and ultimately throwing it all away one night in Sheffield. Ultimately this lead to the election of a Tory to lead the party and a party that is more right wing than the even the like of Frank Chapple (not Eric Chappell as I first wrote!) would have wanted.

The left persisted in the party, did all the hard work, inspired it's greatest achievements. The right used the channels of industrial, legal and political patronage to gain power and privilege and when that went sour expelled or deserted.

Edited by WearyRhino, 15 March 2014 - 10:46 AM.

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#15 tim2

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:25 PM

I know this was posted in the RIP thread, but it's worth repeating here:

 

 

This speech is Tony Benn at his best - articulate and speaking from the heart. He sometimes lost the plot when he got involved in the sordid business of internal Labour politics but his principles and his basic humanity never wavered.

 

Will we see his like again? Probably not, which would be a great shame and an indictment on modern society.


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#16 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 01:10 PM

Labour has always been a divided rabble. It's the nature of the party and has been since it's genesis. Indeed it was it's raison d'etre - bringing together the many parts of the Labour Movement under one banner. For most of the party's history the left were defeated by a right leaning political elite that lead the party despite the left being overwhelmingly the majority in the party's individual membership and non-craft trade unions. When a very broad alliance of leftists began to get footholds of control in local parties and unions, the right cried foul (yet again) and some thought their own political ambitions would be served elsewhere. Kinnock brought the party 'together' by expulsion, moving to the right, cosying up to capital and ultimately throwing it all away one night in Sheffield. Ultimately this lead to the election of a Tory to lead the party and a party that is more right wing than the even the like of Frank Chapple (not Eric Chappell as I first wrote!) would have wanted.

The left persisted in the party, did all the hard work, inspired it's greatest achievements. The right used the channels of industrial, legal and political patronage to gain power and privilege and when that went sour expelled or deserted.

A friend of mine was a member of militant tendency and was eventually expelled from the party had a slightly different take on it. He said that the far-left always used to rig the vote at conference so that they got their own way.



#17 WearyRhino

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 01:25 PM

A friend of mine was a member of militant tendency and was eventually expelled from the party had a slightly different take on it. He said that the far-left always used to rig the vote at conference so that they got their own way.


Lol! You stretched credibility a bit too far with your first 4 words but well and truly snapped it by the end!

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#18 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 02:30 PM

Lol! You stretched credibility a bit too far with your first 4 words but well and truly snapped it by the end!

As ever you seem to have nothing better to do than be unpleasant for the sake of being unpleasant. A hobby might be a good idea. 



#19 WearyRhino

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 02:48 PM

As ever you seem to have nothing better to do than be unpleasant for the sake of being unpleasant. A hobby might be a good idea.


Lighten up, it's a joke! What you said was plainly ridiculous, whilst MT may have controlled a few ward branches in London and controlled Liverpool City Council from a minority position the idea that they could win votes at Conference on a whim is simply untrue. Were it true, surely they would have stopped the expulsions and Deggsy would have been Leader.

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#20 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 02:58 PM

Lighten up, it's a joke! What you said was plainly ridiculous, whilst MT may have controlled a few ward branches in London and controlled Liverpool City Council from a minority position the idea that they could win votes at Conference on a whim is simply untrue. Were it true, surely they would have stopped the expulsions and Deggsy would have been Leader.

I'm just reporting what my friend said. I didn't ask him how it was possible. As for "jokes", it's best to put an emoticon on them.






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