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Never forget that England is, at heart, a progressive nation


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#81 Saintslass

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 11:55 AM

Just to help you out: a little article in the Telegraph explaining about how the history of English marriage is littered with bigamy, adultery, invalid unions and very few marriages ...

 

http://www.telegraph...h-marriage.html

I don't need helping out.  That article doesn't say anything that the links I provided don't say.  What was your point?  The whole reason for the Marriage Act in the 18th century was to clarify the legality point, which is what the links I provided say.  It would appear you didn't click on those links or else you would have known that already!



#82 gingerjon

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:04 PM

I don't need helping out.  That article doesn't say anything that the links I provided don't say.  What was your point?  The whole reason for the Marriage Act in the 18th century was to clarify the legality point, which is what the links I provided say.  It would appear you didn't click on those links or else you would have known that already!

 

I read your links.  The whole point of the marriage act was to make sure people were getting married and doing so religiously.  They weren't doing so before.  They didn't do particularly much afterwards.


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#83 Northern Sol

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:24 PM

Does this fellow now hold a criminal record for his views?

Does that make it okay to treat him as a criminal?



#84 gingerjon

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:32 PM

Does that make it okay to treat him as a criminal?

 

No.  That's why he's been given 13k and an apology.

 

So, this country where anti-homosexual views are brutally suppressed ... where is it?


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#85 Johnoco

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:35 PM

Does this fellow now hold a criminal record for his views?

 

Eh? Are you happy with a situation where people may face imprisonment for holding certain views, even if they don't end up with a record? Sounds very un progressive to me.



#86 Saintslass

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:27 PM

I read your links.  The whole point of the marriage act was to make sure people were getting married and doing so religiously.  They weren't doing so before.  They didn't do particularly much afterwards.

Er no.  The whole point of the Marriage Act (the first one I referred to) was to make sure all people were getting married legally. It was a reaction to the very issues raised in the Telegraph article you linked to and the history text I linked to. The Church of England was given the primary role simply because it is the established church and in the 18th century that meant an awful lot more than it does today, legally as well as religiously (and do you seriously think everyone in the 18th century went to church for purely religious reasons?).  The second Marriage Act I referred to introduced civil weddings. 



#87 Saintslass

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:31 PM

No.  That's why he's been given 13k and an apology.

 

So, this country where anti-homosexual views are brutally suppressed ... where is it?

Brutal suppresion begins with minor acts of suppression, of which this was an ominous example.  A casual reading of history books/online sites (whichever is your preference) will tell you that.



#88 Saintslass

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:34 PM

Eh? Are you happy with a situation where people may face imprisonment for holding certain views, even if they don't end up with a record? Sounds very un progressive to me.

As with pretty much every self styled 'progressive' nation in the world, to be considered progressive means to agree with certain views and to disagree with certain views IMO.  To be progressive in this country everyone must agree with gay marriage but disagree with smoking, to provide two random examples that just popped into my head.  Or everyone must never offend anyone except those of a Christian persuasion and paedophiles.  There are definite trends to this progressiveness and I'm sure I'll get abused for pointing out some of them!



#89 JohnM

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:41 PM

...and everyone must agree with GJ .

#90 Northern Sol

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:36 PM

No.  That's why he's been given 13k and an apology.

 

So, this country where anti-homosexual views are brutally suppressed ... where is it?

Perhaps you could clarify as to who said that these views are brutally suppressed?

 

I'm saying that bigotry isn't just sky pixie followers bashing gays. Trendies can also be pretty bigotted towards Christians.

 

This guy got well compensated but that doesn't mean that the bigotry underlying his treatment should be swept under the carpet.



#91 Bob8

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:36 PM

Perhaps you could clarify as to who said that these views are brutally suppressed?

 

I'm saying that bigotry isn't just sky pixie followers bashing gays. Trendies can also be pretty bigoted towards Christians.

 

This guy got well compensated but that doesn't mean that the bigotry underlying his treatment should be swept under the carpet.

As a sky pixie follower, I do not feel particularly oppressed when in the UK, but then I clearly have a reasonably thick skin ;).  There are plenty who think not being religious qualifies them as intellectuals, though I am intellectually arrogant enough to tolerate that intellectual arrogance and silliness.

 

As I posted earlier, my impression is that they picked on him as they had him down as an annoying nutter.  In terms of most likely to suffer from police harassment, I do not imagine it is because of his conservative views so much as them finding him annoying.  That he has been compensated suggested it has been fairly handled.  If there are regular cases of people being rounded up for being Christian, I will share the concern more deeply.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#92 Saintslass

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:39 PM

 

As I posted earlier, my impression is that they picked on him as they had him down as an annoying nutter.  In terms of most likely to suffer from police harassment, I do not imagine it is because of his conservative views so much as them finding him annoying.  That he has been compensated suggested it has been fairly handled.  If there are regular cases of people being rounded up for being Christian, I will share the concern more deeply.

That he has been compensated is evidence that he was not fairly handled.  Why else would he have received compensation?



#93 Bob8

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:13 PM

That he has been compensated is evidence that he was not fairly handled.  Why else would he have received compensation?

To be fair I specifically refer to why I would guess he was specifically picked on.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#94 Northern Sol

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:45 PM

As a sky pixie follower, I do not feel particularly oppressed when in the UK, but then I clearly have a reasonably thick skin ;).  There are plenty who think not being religious qualifies them as intellectuals, though I am intellectually arrogant enough to tolerate that intellectual arrogance and silliness.

 

As I posted earlier, my impression is that they picked on him as they had him down as an annoying nutter.  In terms of most likely to suffer from police harassment, I do not imagine it is because of his conservative views so much as them finding him annoying.  That he has been compensated suggested it has been fairly handled.  If there are regular cases of people being rounded up for being Christian, I will share the concern more deeply.

"Annoying nutter" is not yet a criminal offence and as such he should not have been arrested.



#95 gingerjon

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:53 AM

"Annoying nutter" is not yet a criminal offence and as such he should not have been arrested.

 

Oddly, everyone agrees with this. That's why he's received compensation and an apology.


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#96 Bob8

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:55 AM

"Annoying nutter" is not yet a criminal offence and as such he should not have been arrested.

 

No,  which is the context of the mail.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#97 Saintslass

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:10 AM

To be fair I specifically refer to why I would guess he was specifically picked on.

I was contesting your suggestion that in receiving compensation he was fairly treated.  He could not have been fairly treated otherwise he would not have received compensation.



#98 Northern Sol

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:37 AM

Oddly, everyone agrees with this. That's why he's received compensation and an apology.

If everyone agreed then he would not have been treated that way in the first place. 



#99 WearyRhino

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:50 AM

"Annoying nutter" is not yet a criminal offence and as such he should not have been arrested.


Actually, if being an "annoying nutter" causes a 'breach of the peace' or even risks such, you can be arrested. Being arrested does not necessarily mean 'commited a criminal offence' or necessitate 'being charged'.

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#100 Northern Sol

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:05 AM

Actually, if being an "annoying nutter" causes a 'breach of the peace' or even risks such, you can be arrested. Being arrested does not necessarily mean 'commited a criminal offence' or necessitate 'being charged'.

The thing is that there was nothing that he did that would be a "breach of the peace". It seems that the police arrived with a cliched view of a bigot preacher upsetting innocent gay teenagers and acted accordingly. The facts seem to have been different.