Jump to content


TotalRL.com Shop Alert: Last Ordering Date for Free Pre-Xmas Delivery within UK: 2pm Thursday 18th December!!
Rugby League Yearbook 2014/15 The Forbidden Game League Express League Express Gift Card Rugby League World Rugby League World Gift Card
Buy Now £14.99 / Kindle Buy Now £14.99 / Kindle Print / Digital Subscription Gift Cards Print / Digital Subscription Gift Cards



Photo
- - - - -

Wigan Investing in Welsh Rugby League

Subsidising Youth Coaching

  • Please log in to reply
112 replies to this topic

#21 crusadin_photoman

crusadin_photoman
  • Coach
  • 274 posts

Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:23 PM

I was wondering whether George Williams has any Welsh blood?

I don't think he has as I am sure I asked his father exactly that when he played for the England Under 18 side against Wales last year.



#22 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 6,051 posts

Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:25 PM

Nice dose of realism there Yipyee, the concensus of wishful thinking seems to state that somehow the game should find the money and go all over England and Wales developing the junior game. Spend what we have where it's most effective, get SL clubs to tie in with other regional academies.


If someone, sometime had not started the junior game in Wales in direct contradiction to your suggested development path, then there would have been no game there for Wigan to tap into. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

#23 JM2010

JM2010
  • Coach
  • 167 posts

Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:26 PM

And how many SL clubs can afford the pleasure of Super League Rugby? You might find that five or six could invest in ventures of that kind.


If you quoted my later post you would have seen that I said something similar. Probably Saints, Salford, Warrington, Leeds, Hull, Huddersfield may also he able to invest

#24 yipyee

yipyee
  • Coach
  • 1,362 posts

Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:11 PM

If you quoted my later post you would have seen that I said something similar. Probably Saints, Salford, Warrington, Leeds, Hull, Huddersfield may also he able to invest


all of those bar saints still have a lot of work to do in their own communities, wigan and st helens are saturated with RL and therefore need to look elsewhere to expand. ....

#25 John Rhino

John Rhino
  • Coach
  • 2,514 posts

Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:25 PM

My thoughts exactly, just take the London boroughs for example with each super league club investing say £10,000-£20,000 in areas like Croydon, newham, hackney etc. For me it would be a win win for both the super league clubs and RL in London, or there's other areas like Birmingham, Bristol, Nottingham, Liverpool etc.


And Derby. It was the policy of the RFL to link the RLConference clubs with SL clubs who would aid their development.
Over the years we were linked to Leeds, Salford and Cas. Never heard a single word from any of them despite our efforts.
So well done Wigan!

Derby City - proud to be flying the flag for Rugby League in the Midlands for over 24 years.
 

Visit:  http://www.derbycityrlfc.co.uk and see the progress being made.

 

Follow us on Twitter: @derbycityrlfc


#26 buford t justice

buford t justice
  • Coach
  • 1,900 posts

Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:29 PM

Having been to Wrexham on Sunday to watch Batley, I was pleasantly surprised at the atmosphere and number of supporters the Crusaders have - the place was bouncing when they scored - nice to see that the game is beginning to flourish in that part of Wales, I hope they can continue to grow and firmly establish themselves in that area, there seems to be lots of interest and the fans were great fun and very hospitable.
What we're dealing with here is a complete lack of respect for the law

#27 sweaty craiq

sweaty craiq
  • Coach
  • 1,780 posts

Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:55 PM

just out of interest why wouldn't you rank saints with leeds and wigan?
Also whats the point of U23s?

 

Long term Academy success and player production, 23's allows the 'squad' to play in a competitive comp with the game structures they would be expected to use in a first team game



#28 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,705 posts

Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:16 PM

If someone, sometime had not started the junior game in Wales in direct contradiction to your suggested development path, then there would have been no game there for Wigan to tap into. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

The junior game took off on the back of Celtic Crusaders whom many on here wanted to see the back of.

 

Wigan are trying to rescue it.



#29 yipyee

yipyee
  • Coach
  • 1,362 posts

Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:59 PM

Long term Academy success and player production, 23's allows the 'squad' to play in a competitive comp with the game structures they would be expected to use in a first team game


Isn't that what dual reg is for? Dual reg benefits both clubs! Under 23s would stave tier 2 clubs of players until they were 23 and SL clubs would keep hold of players who would never make it just to make up a squad of players, paying these players would then take vital money away from the elite clubs!

#30 yipyee

yipyee
  • Coach
  • 1,362 posts

Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:02 PM

The junior game took off on the back of Celtic Crusaders whom many on here wanted to see the back of.

Wigan are trying to rescue it.


celtic crusaders with long term backing would be looking pretty now but short termism left the door open for wigan opertunism! Just imagine all the welsh talent coming through playing for a welsh elite SL team with the welsh junior clubs feeding into it! Also the elite welsh club would have sold the world cup a lot better also!!

#31 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 6,051 posts

Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:57 PM

The junior game took off on the back of Celtic Crusaders whom many on here wanted to see the back of.

 

Wigan are trying to rescue it.

 Wigan are in it for Wigan. If there was no up side for Wigan, as in, Welsh players for the Warriors, Wigan wouldn't put a red cent into Welsh junior rugby. There's no selfless all for the good of the game intent behind this "rescue".



#32 sgorpioncaerdyddrob

sgorpioncaerdyddrob
  • Coach
  • 359 posts

Posted 01 April 2014 - 11:44 PM

Frankly as a South Wales RL fan I have yet to see any benefit to our club and the game here from Wigan's involvement in the set up of the WRL academy.  The dual reg agreement that thankfully hasn't been continued this year, very nearly brought about the clubs' demise last season, and undermined much of the hard work our development officers, coaches and local players had collectively put in over the years to achieve the standards required. We need a local investor who is willing to spend time and money, with a passion to support the game here for the benefit of South Wales RL and Wales Rugby League, not for the benefit of Wigan. I understand why they would use it to their advantage and I am sure some of our academy players have used their experience and teaching to good benefit, but long term it will be unsustainable.


CARDIFF CITY RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB cardiffrugbyleague.com
BLUE BLUE BLUE DRAGONS!
Rygbi Gynghrair Cymru am byth


#33 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,705 posts

Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:32 AM

 There's no selfless all for the good of the game intent behind this "rescue".

 

Nobody said there was, and no doubt Wigan develop the Junior game in their own area for their own purposes.

 

But your previous comment you use this idea to deflect from was nonsense, Celtic Crusaders were the catalyst for the growth of the junior game in south wales and as experienced and qualified commentators say London's exit from Superleague will also mean a demise in Junior RL there.

 

Yet one of the famous Forum myths that kids will take RL seriously in number around the country clamouring to travel north to be RL professionals along the M62 will no doubt continue.

 

Reality as shown by logic and events and not wishful thinking is that the games best chance for junior development is on their own doorstep., borne out by how even Leeds can find places close to home to develop JRL where before it was non existent.



#34 gogledd

gogledd
  • Coach
  • 733 posts

Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:32 AM

celtic crusaders with long term backing would be looking pretty now but short termism left the door open for wigan opertunism! Just imagine all the welsh talent coming through playing for a welsh elite SL team with the welsh junior clubs feeding into it! Also the elite welsh club would have sold the world cup a lot better also!!

I take it your referring to RL in South Wales? North Wales seems to have to do things via North Wales Crusaders as the WRL seem to have the vast majority of the organisation in the South - probably because that is where the majority of the rugby talent is. However a talented youngster from the North is going to find it really difficult to travel to Maesteg for academy training and will either develop with North Wales Crusaders or try on of the North West clubs in easy travelling distance.

 

As for the World Cup - we attracted almost 14000 supporters to the 2 games held at the Racecourse, and one of the games didn't feature Wales at all. Credit where its due I think RLWC2013 was sold well in the North.

 

I should add that I am pleased to see any investment in RL in Wales so well done to Wigan for this initiative.


Edited by gogledd, 02 April 2014 - 08:33 AM.


#35 Saintslass

Saintslass
  • Coach
  • 4,789 posts

Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:39 AM

Virtually no RL played in Liverpool . Soccer rules totally , the average kid from Liverpool hasn't even heard of rugby, never mind RL.
Virtually all the Rugby playing schools play The dark side if not all.
A bit pie in the sky that one. James Graham is most certainly the exception.

Saints have been involved with rugby league in Liverpool for years.  For a few years they have run a world cup schools competition, when various schools adopt a particular country and compete as that country, with Paul Wellens presenting the trophy to the winning school.  That's on top of the regular work done in Liverpool schools and with the Liverpool amateur clubs.  In addition, Saints officially support a newly formed wheelchair rugby league team in Liverpool.  They opened the season by playing a team based in Scotland.  Saints also include the Liverpool junior teams in their halftime schools matches during home games.  I think Widnes also work in Liverpool and there has been some talk recently about Saints and Widnes combining their efforts.

 

Saints also have a link school in Mold, North Wales, where they have been running coaching and other courses.

 

Saints also have some international involvement.  I don't know whether they still have their link with the Canadian club that they had when our previous assistant coach was in place (now assistant at Hudds) but there was a brief report in the last match programme of their links with rugby league development in two European nations.



#36 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,705 posts

Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:34 AM

Saints have been involved with rugby league in Liverpool for years.  For a few years they have run a world cup schools competition, when various schools adopt a particular country and compete as that country, with Paul Wellens presenting the trophy to the winning school.  That's on top of the regular work done in Liverpool schools and with the Liverpool amateur clubs.  In addition, Saints officially support a newly formed wheelchair rugby league team in Liverpool.  They opened the season by playing a team based in Scotland.  Saints also include the Liverpool junior teams in their halftime schools matches during home games. 

 

Love your posts. Your club is one of the games most successful and like Leeds and Wigan as

Gary Schofield pointed out, it is the development of their own local players that makes for such strong teams over the years

 

The reality for Saints as you have kindly pointed out above, is there is much to be done "on the doorstep", same with Leeds where a whole area across north Leeds was Rugby Union, and is now slowly and quietly being turned to league by Leeds.

 

Wigan have the advantage of possibly saturating their area with junior development, in Bradford as pointed out the other year RL for kids is a south Bradford thing so again there's so much development to do in our own back yards where it is most cost effective and where we get the best results.

 

I think Wigan's support is based on there being an academy to support, and to try to stop a retreat to the north for junior RL. I can see why they are doing this which is a double edged sword of self interest and more general for the good of the game (arguably self interest in a round about way!). We have similar academies for Cumbria, North East. Midlands and London don't we? So are other top SL clubs to partner with them??

 

For me I hope this creates a better flow of talent, but I expect that the close to home areas are more likely to deliver....


Edited by The Parksider, 02 April 2014 - 09:36 AM.


#37 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 6,051 posts

Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:15 PM

Nobody said there was, and no doubt Wigan develop the Junior game in their own area for their own purposes.

 

But your previous comment you use this idea to deflect from was nonsense, Celtic Crusaders were the catalyst for the growth of the junior game in south wales and as experienced and qualified commentators say London's exit from Superleague will also mean a demise in Junior RL there.

 

Yet one of the famous Forum myths that kids will take RL seriously in number around the country clamouring to travel north to be RL professionals along the M62 will no doubt continue.

 

Reality as shown by logic and events and not wishful thinking is that the games best chance for junior development is on their own doorstep., borne out by how even Leeds can find places close to home to develop JRL where before it was non existent.

 

Wigan were the happy recipients of a century old junior game in Wigan. They are aiding and assisting no doubt but their junior base long pre dated SL

 

If you read "A Welsh Crusade, Rugby League in Wales 1990 to 2009' by Ian Golden you will see that RL in Wales was well on the way before a SL team appeared on the horizon in 2008, to depart a couple of years later. There is no SL side in Wales and Welsh junior rugby is still there. Your obsession with SL being the fountainhead of everything is getting stale.

 

I am willing to bet that any London exit from SL will not have too injurious effect on junior RL there. The junior game South of the river and in the Skolars area and around Hemel  and Gillingham is far away from the Broncos sphere of influence. How strong is the game in Twickenham, the Broncos back yard for the last decade ?

 

You have espoused the view before that kids take up RL with a view to having a pro career. In my opinion, nothing could be farther from the truth. They take up the game as a form of enjoyment and exercise and hanging with their mates, aided and encouraged by teachers, development officers and local amateur clubs. Any thoughts of a pro career will not surface until their potential is seen much later and the number of southern produced players in northern Sl sides would suggest that they will travel north for fame and fortune just as they will travel to the other side of the globe from the north.

 

I fully agree that there is plenty of scope for growing junior RL in the northern :strongholds".



#38 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,705 posts

Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:49 PM

RL in Wales was well on the way before a SL team appeared on the horizon in 2008, to depart a couple of years later. There is no SL side in Wales and Welsh junior rugby is still there.

 

I am willing to bet that any London exit from SL will not have too injurious effect on junior RL there.

 

I fully agree that there is plenty of scope for growing junior RL in the northern :strongholds".

 

I'm pleased you agree with the latter and my further point was its easier and more cost effective for Leeds to spend their budget developing the game in North Leeds than South Gloucester. Agree??.

 

As for you two opening statements. We should bow to anyone who knows the junior game well in these two areas as to wHether they think an SL presence is no matter and as to whether the junior game will grow apace despite it?

 

That should ensure we don't bore anyone disagreeing. Any takers out there? If not we'll beg to differ there.


Edited by The Parksider, 02 April 2014 - 01:50 PM.


#39 londonrlfan

londonrlfan
  • Coach
  • 1,031 posts

Posted 02 April 2014 - 02:34 PM

I am willing to bet that any London exit from SL will not have too injurious effect on junior RL there. The junior game South of the river and in the Skolars area and around Hemel  and Gillingham is far away from the Broncos sphere of influence. How strong is the game in Twickenham, the Broncos back yard for the last decade ?

 

And on what basis do you make that claim? All the junior work was being done in Hounslow, Kingston and Surrey whilst we were in Twickers, but now all that hard work is gone, with the loss of development officers and the move to Edgware. The RFL will pay for one RL dev officer in an area where there are no junior or senior rl clubs and rl is an alien sport, in Harrow. 

 

Skolars are heavily reliant on Broncos for players, without them they will also suffer. The only players that will 'move North' will be the established players like Krasniqi, McMeeken, Dixon, Bishay etc. The academy players will be lost to the game completely, whether to union, football, uni or wherever they decide to go. 


Edited by londonrlfan, 02 April 2014 - 02:35 PM.


#40 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 17,307 posts

Posted 02 April 2014 - 02:44 PM

Nobody said there was, and no doubt Wigan develop the Junior game in their own area for their own purposes.

 

But your previous comment you use this idea to deflect from was nonsense, Celtic Crusaders were the catalyst for the growth of the junior game in south wales and as experienced and qualified commentators say London's exit from Superleague will also mean a demise in Junior RL there.

 

Yet one of the famous Forum myths that kids will take RL seriously in number around the country clamouring to travel north to be RL professionals along the M62 will no doubt continue.

 

Reality as shown by logic and events and not wishful thinking is that the games best chance for junior development is on their own doorstep., borne out by how even Leeds can find places close to home to develop JRL where before it was non existent.

 

Amazing how Crusaders' demise didn't result in the collapse of junior rugby in Wales even though you insisted at the time that it would. Yet now you are playing the "Broncos demise will lead to the death of London junior rugby" with a similar lack of awareness.


Edited by Northern Sol, 02 April 2014 - 02:49 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users