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A lions tour is it folly?


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115 replies to this topic

#1 central park

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:27 PM

If the RFL can manage to persuade the reluctant Antipodeans in agreeing to a British lions tour,Does any one beleive it could bring sucess?

 

If as previous tours the match scedules are similar i.e club,county and country

 

How would they fare against the state of origins sides ?

 

Plus the fact both New Zealand and Australia could field at least second grade teams to compete if not better the Lions

 

All this before facing the test teams

 

 Then theres  the prospect of facing the club sides. would it not give the ammunition which the Aussies would gratefully accept and fire a broadside stating theres only the NRL which counts



#2 Oxford

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:58 PM

The condescension of certain sectors of the NRL borders on lunacy. Even when they see evidence to the contrary and hear it from the
likes of people who are revered on their own shores in their own game their arrogance knows no frontiers. No one is saying that their league isn't the best or that they wouldn't beat GB as a team but that in preventing a level playing from happening,and making sure of their supremacy to the detriment of the international game they do everyone in our game a disservice. I did hope that the new NRL
regime would understand and do something about internationals as the real way forward but they have an awful lot of opposition to
overcome first.And no a GB side doing badly in Oz would not help any one and that opposition is just waiting to put the Poms down in favour of limited outlook that has predominated there for a very long time now.It's no use being apologetic and shy about issues like this because they've taken to ignoring the vast possibilities because they like the small pond that arrogance thrives on. I don't
for one minute believe this is every Aussie but this faction has held sway in our sport back and kept it in the doldrums for far too long!And it is our sport too, it doesn't just belong to them!

Edited by Oxford, 01 April 2014 - 01:00 PM.


#3 nadera78

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:14 PM

There are two things I don't like about it. Firstly that it will effectively be England in a different shirt, and secondly that including it in the cycle means we're going three years without an England home series. How on earth is that 'building on the RLWC'?


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#4 sweaty craiq

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:50 PM

Essential, and long overdue. An England RU tour to Australia gets little press when compared to a Lions tour 



#5 Saintslass

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:58 PM

The Lions are a thing of the past for rugby league and any Lions team would simply be England under a different guise.  One of the weaknesses in rugby league is that many fans and pundits still cling to things gone by.

 

On top of all that of course is the potential reality that come October 2014 there won't BE a Great Britain identity anymore.  We will have been forced by Scotland to forget the idea for good.

 

England is where it is at and is the brand that has been attracting a growing number of spectators to watch matches over the last few years.

 

We desperately need a Four Nations competition back in this country in 2015.  We saw from the higher turnout at Wembley in the world cup that we are building.  20,000 more people attended that than the Four Nations double header held there two years previously.  If we continue that trajectory in 2015 by holding another double header there then it won't be long before we are selling out Wembley for internationals and surely THAT is far more important to the sport overall than some outdated notion of Great Britain?  Not to mention leaving a yawning gap in the home based international calendar that would result any positive spectator legacy from the world cup die a death?



#6 Saintslass

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:59 PM

Essential, and long overdue. An England RU tour to Australia gets little press when compared to a Lions tour 

That is another reason why we must stick to England.  We need our identity to be separate from union. 



#7 londonrlfan

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:38 PM

Dumb idea. Tours are a thing of the past, we should be having tournaments instead. There's no reason to still be touring countries in the 21st century.

 

We don't need to copy everything Union do. Their Lions identity works because they have also had home nations playing internationals for many years prior to the first Lions tour, something RL hasn't. A team of 17 Englishmen wearing GB shirts is not going to attract interest in Scotland, NI and Wales, those nations playing and beating England will. 



#8 Dave T

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:50 PM

Can live with a tour, but as Nadera says the fact that England RL are pretty much doing nothing at home for 3 years is a massive flaw after all the good work in the RLWC.

 

Even if they could get PNG/Tonga/Samoa/Fiji over here to play a couple of games to capitalise on those team's popularity in the WC we could at least get some continuity.

 

In the year of any Lions tour, there needs to be a commitment to get England RL playing in mid year.

 

I'm less concerned about the 'England in a different shirt' point. If you take a big enough squad, you could easily include some Ireland, Scotland and Wales players to give it an authentic feel. Whilst that may feel somewhat fake, that does happen in RU and nobody questions it, although RL fans are much less forgiving.



#9 GeordieSaint

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:13 PM

Can live with a tour, but as Nadera says the fact that England RL are pretty much doing nothing at home for 3 years is a massive flaw after all the good work in the RLWC.

 

I'd agree with that statement. I haven't read the RLWC 13 report as there is no doubt it was hugely successful but I am absolutely astonished to see very little work has been done to build on the huge gains made by the tournament; simply expecting people to turn up or tune into the club games isn't enough... it fundamentally MUST be driven by the national concept and then tapping into the community level. I feel (and this is just an opinion!) we have missed a massive opportunity in so many different ways...


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#10 ckn

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:25 PM

My troll-finder senses are thinking that this may be a reincarnation...  I'll leave it for a while but, well, it could be a short visit.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#11 Lesmets

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:15 PM

I think there's 2 legit points here ,a GB tour or England Home series ,being from Ireland I always enjoyed GB tours of the past and those epic encounters at Wembley in the 90s ,however maybe bringing them back at the expense of a home series is folly.

IMO England should adopt the GB colours since it's this country's historical representative colours but retain a England identity, maybe a 3 Test home Ashes series England v Australia in 2015.

Les

#12 gutterfax

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:07 PM

Essential, and long overdue. An England RU tour to Australia gets little press when compared to a Lions tour

Correct......2013 was a well reported and brilliantly attended lions tour!

#13 yipyee

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 10:13 PM

Correct......2013 was a well reported and brilliantly attended lions tour!


yes and the home nations still played games,

the irony of it all is that the only player from outside the england team that stands a chance of breaking into a GB squad is danny brough who is English and has played for england! He is championed as why it wouldn't just be England!

For me a tri nations of wales, England, France is the way forward with a second tier of Ireland italy and Scotland with top 2 of group playing off for trophy and bottom of tier one play top of tier 2 for promotion,

I also think NRL players shouldnt be selected for England.

#14 Johnoco

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:51 AM

Correct......2013 was a well reported and brilliantly attended lions tour!

You see, you have already set the bar too high there.

I do have a problem with the 'England in a GB shirt' aspect as it is pretty dishonest imo. But even if there were Celtic players making the squad on merit, it would be more beneficial to RL to have them playing for their respective nations.

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#15 thirteenthman

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:54 AM

Correct......2013 was a well reported and brilliantly attended lions tour!

 

In a different sport. Not quite sure what, if any, significance that holds for RL.

 

I'd like to think that we're not bringing back the GB team simply because of the success or otherwise of a tour organised by another sport. 



#16 jlawton21

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:08 AM

The most important thing is to sort out the international calendar, give some structure so that everyone knows whats going on at the end of the year.
If GB is on the cards, I'm OK with that, but it needs to be every four years or every two years. Not just whenever it can squeazed in.
Someone suggested a Tri Nations with England, France and Wales. I like this idea, but again, as long as it is played at regular intervals.

#17 gutterfax

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:34 AM

In a different sport. Not quite sure what, if any, significance that holds for RL.

Ask sweaty Craig........he was the one who thought mentioning union was a good way to open his post in this thread.

#18 Dave T

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:51 AM

yes and the home nations still played games,

the irony of it all is that the only player from outside the england team that stands a chance of breaking into a GB squad is danny brough who is English and has played for england! He is championed as why it wouldn't just be England!

For me a tri nations of wales, England, France is the way forward with a second tier of Ireland italy and Scotland with top 2 of group playing off for trophy and bottom of tier one play top of tier 2 for promotion,

I also think NRL players shouldnt be selected for England.

With regards to England v Wales v France - I'd also like to see a guest team each year (a Pacific Island team maybe) - but done right this could work well.

The last time they did it we had low crowds in Salford and Hull - but there is no reason why we couldn't have a tournament with games staged in France, organising tours for England fans to go down to the South of France and you get some decent crowds.

Having England stage one game in the tournament would make this more in demand and the sooner they have proper supporter tours to France the better.



#19 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:46 AM

They could pick Russell, Brough, Flower and the NRL based Welsh second row without particularly weakening the squad. If Lions tours were a regular occurrence, a Welshman looking to move up to our game from another sport might suddenly be faced with the prospect of a major tour and an already excellent and growing World Cup every 4 years. We could make that a selling point...

Like anything else, this could work if enough people put in enough effort to make it work. We got over 7k to Bristol for a mid week USA-Cook Islands game, so can get 5 figure crowds for Lions matches.

The Aussies and Kiwis were away for 7 weeks for the World Cup. It would do us no harm at all to have a squad together for a long period of time, if only to pick up any Hockesque behaviour earlier than immediately prior to the World Cup.

To my mind the key people in this are the players. They're the ones who complain about the lack of international opportunities. If they're keen on what could be a life changing experience then we owe it to them to make it happen.

As for the fixture list, we have played Winfield Cup teams in the past, but the home team has generally been happy to adjust the level of player turning out so as to ensure even our mid week teams are competitive.

Lions tours have a very long history, and have brought out some heroic performances.

By 2015 we could have nearly a dozen available players already based in the NRL - getting everyone together for a long period of time could be vital in building a team ethos, learning off one another and finding out about each other, in a way that you can't replicate by get togethers during the SL season any more.

The more I think about it, the more I think that the pro's vastly outweigh any con's.



#20 londonrlfan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:50 AM

In a different sport. Not quite sure what, if any, significance that holds for RL.

 

I'd like to think that we're not bringing back the GB team simply because of the success or otherwise of a tour organised by another sport. 

 

Of course and Union also announce their tours well in advance, so fans know where they'll be going years in advance. RL will wait until June next year to announce the dates, meaning fans will have very little chance of making it and thus completely scuppering the idea of a tour. 

 

What's wrong with having a NH tournament next year? Now I know the stadiums will be booked for the RUWC, but then why not have it in France instead? 






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