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A lions tour is it folly?


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#101 londonrlfan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:07 PM

I didn't realise there was an event this year! No fixtures on the rlef website.

 

I'd rather watch both!

 

 

There should be some sort of Oceania tournament that mirrors what is happening in Europe and acts as qualifiers for the bigger comps.

 

Yeah there definitely is one, they're just taking ages to announce it, like with the Four Nations. 

 

Completely agree with the Oceania tournament as well. I've been saying for ages there needs to be more regional tournaments, it will be the only way the sport grows.



#102 Johnoco

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:19 PM

I think we all agree that more, and competitive international RL is the way forward. I think we just disagree with the process of achieving that. :)

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#103 RugbyLeagueGeek

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:20 PM

Yeah there definitely is one, they're just taking ages to announce it, like with the Four Nations. 

 

Completely agree with the Oceania tournament as well. I've been saying for ages there needs to be more regional tournaments, it will be the only way the sport grows.

Isn't this nice - we all seem to be reaching common ground!



#104 JM2010

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 03:49 PM

From the ideas i've read, my own ideas and what has already been planned I think this may be a reasonable plan. It's only an idea so feel free to pull it apart.

2014-4N plus Euros (already planned)
2015
(mid season)NH.England vs Celts, France vs Exiles plus lower tier Euro competitions.
SH. SOO, NZ origin, Pacific cup
(end of season) Lions tour to Oz including games vs Pacific islands, France tour to NZ
2016
(mid season)NH.Euro Nations- Eng, Fr, Sco,Wal, Ire/Ita(top 2 qualify for end of season 5N) plus ,lower tier Euro comps.
SH. SOO, NZ origin, pacific cup(top 1 qualifies for 5N)
(end of season)5N, WC qualifiers
2017- (mid season)as 2016
(end of season) WC
2018-(mid season) as 2016
(end of season) 5N
2019- (mid season)as 2015
(end of season) Aus/NZ tour to play GB plus games vs France and home nations.
Repeat cycle.

#105 yipyee

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:41 PM

What nonsense. The Lions are a thing of the past because only England play the game yet we 'desperately need a Four Nations competition' ? What, so England can can embarrass the likes of the Irish again and again ? Do you actually think before you write ?

The Lions are what RL was all about. There was and is no bigger honour in the game than being a British Lion. The Australians respected them, the British sporting landscape respected them and people such as you dismiss the concept as little more than a classical oddity. Try telling that to many of the legends of our sport that made their name within the concept. Prescott breaking his arm, the fabled Battle of Brisbane, the Wild Bull of the Pampas, Mal Reilly, Eric Ashton. The Lions played across the world and have a pedigree stretching back to the early years of the 20th century.

We've got a thread on here talking about Wigan investment in Wales. We've got Welsh players in SL, we've got Brough representing Scoland. The Lions have always been English or Welsh predominantly. That hasn't changed. It wasn't a problem then and it isn't now. It instilled pride in players and pride in the British game. Since its disappearance, RL struggles to even gain a paragraph in the mainstream media. The Lions never struggled with that.

The idea that England RL can or will replace the concept of the British Lions is immature. The Lions were an idiosyncrasy of RL. They made it the game that it was. The loss of that idiosyncrasy is a large part of the fall from grace of the game in this country. The sooner it is back, the better.


what utter nonsense pretending its still 1955 is whats holding RL back! Even union is talking about scrapping the lions!

#106 yipyee

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:43 PM

Cricket is a poor example given they only have 10 Test Nations. Ryan Giggs could have played for England and played in many major tournaments, but he opted with Wales and had nothing to show internationally for it. However, he was never going tof play for England as a proud Welshman. Civoniceva moved to Australia before he was 1, I don't see why it's a problem he chose Australia, given that's the country he knows. Uate playing for Australia was a joke I agree, but that was more down to Origin and thankfully he's back with Fiji now.

I keep saying we need to have a Euro Four Nations, with the likes of Wales, Scotland, France etc. We play Australia/NZ far too much and need to focus on the NH as well. I keep saying it, but Scots and Welsh will only be interested in RL by them playing and beating England, not by a GB team full of English players.


apparently giggs could never have played for england. ..general misconception im afraid!

#107 yipyee

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:50 PM

But what level of athlete are you going to get from these other home nations? The top athletes will likely opt for football, the RU will probably be next in the pecking order, then RL will be way down the list because it won't even be on these youngsters' radars. Plus, how many youngsters are likely to up sticks and move away from home at such a young age to chase potential success in a completely alien sport? Yes we may pick up one or two decent players over time, but I don't see this being the basis for creating a competitive national team.

Perhaps things like salary cap exemption for home nations RU players may be more realistic way of getting Welsh, Scots and Irish players into RL in the short term. Long term the aim has to be to develop pro clubs in these countries, but that will take time and money. Lots of it.


dear oh dear,

RU is bigger than soccer in wales and Ireland, in fact hurling and gaelic football are probably before 'the English games'

#108 RugbyLeagueGeek

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 11:34 PM

dear oh dear,

RU is bigger than soccer in wales and Ireland, in fact hurling and gaelic football are probably before 'the English games'

Not sure what point you're trying to make


Edited by RugbyLeagueGeek, 05 April 2014 - 11:35 PM.


#109 gutterfax

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 12:37 AM

And yet the Scottish benefited from a significantly increased media profile during last year's World Cup...

Really? Most Scottish people would have no idea that they even had an international RL side

#110 Aucks Warriors

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:57 AM

They can't be that poor if they can afford to travel to NZ. I'm not saying they should go on an all expenses paid jaunt round the Pacific islands, I'm saying why can't they play PNG and Fiji whilst they're there. One stop off at Kokopo is hardly going to bankrupt them and they could play Fiji in NZ.The comment about them playing NZ Maori or Provinces instead is exactly the kind of attitude holding the game back, where nations would rather play these fake, invented teams than actual test matches. England did the same when they were last in the SH for the 2010 Four Nations. 

I don't know if you are aware of the expenses that will occur by the French RL if they take a trip to NZ which will include stopping of at the Pacific Islands. Now your saying that Fiji and PNG should also tour NZ and meet the French while they there which will also put a strain in their finances as well. Who's going to watch the French vs the Kumuls in NZ?

A tour of the French to NZ should also include not only test matches against the Kiwis but also games against the NZ Maoris and NZ provinces like Auckland, Canterbury and Wellington and this teams have been around for over 100 years playing against Australia and Great Britain and aren't fake teams or invented. Why don't you do some research on the past RL tours to NZ where the Maori's and NZ provinces were involve.



#111 walter sobchak

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:32 AM

I don't know if you are aware of the expenses that will occur by the French RL if they take a trip to NZ which will include stopping of at the Pacific Islands. Now your saying that Fiji and PNG should also tour NZ and meet the French while they there which will also put a strain in their finances as well. Who's going to watch the French vs the Kumuls in NZ?
A tour of the French to NZ should also include not only test matches against the Kiwis but also games against the NZ Maoris and NZ provinces like Auckland, Canterbury and Wellington and this teams have been around for over 100 years playing against Australia and Great Britain and aren't fake teams or invented. Why don't you do some research on the past RL tours to NZ where the Maori's and NZ provinces were involve.

There has been some epic battles between the touring Aussies and brits against the Maori's and Auckland. A match against the Maori's should be played in rotorua and Auckland played at mt smart.

#112 RugbyLeagueGeek

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:02 AM

Really? Most Scottish people would have no idea that they even had an international RL side

Yes but their profile had still increased with higher media coverage on tv and in papers. I never said it wasn't still very low.



#113 Dave T

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:21 AM

Really? Most Scottish people would have no idea that they even had an international RL side

that doesnt mean they didnt have an increased level of coverage. I spoke to all sorts of people in Scotland about it during the tournament. Of course the Premier coverge was a real negative for Scotland.

#114 londonrlfan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:47 AM

I don't know if you are aware of the expenses that will occur by the French RL if they take a trip to NZ which will include stopping of at the Pacific Islands. Now your saying that Fiji and PNG should also tour NZ and meet the French while they there which will also put a strain in their finances as well. Who's going to watch the French vs the Kumuls in NZ?

A tour of the French to NZ should also include not only test matches against the Kiwis but also games against the NZ Maoris and NZ provinces like Auckland, Canterbury and Wellington and this teams have been around for over 100 years playing against Australia and Great Britain and aren't fake teams or invented. Why don't you do some research on the past RL tours to NZ where the Maori's and NZ provinces were involve.

 

Can you read English or are you just trying to be funny? What part of Kokopo is in NZ? Here's a clue, it's where the PNG Hunters (yes, PNG as in Papua New Guinea) play. Fiji regularly play their matches in Oz, so why not play in NZ while the French are there? I didn't say Australia is a fake team dipshit, I said NZ Maori are. They're not a real international side. What's the point of playing amateur club sides, when they could play International sides which would do far more for the game, then something that used to occur in the Victorian era when the game was only starting out. 


Edited by londonrlfan, 06 April 2014 - 11:47 AM.


#115 Lesmets

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 12:02 PM

what utter nonsense pretending its still 1955 is whats holding RL back! Even union is talking about scrapping the lions!


Yeah they did but realised what an utterly insane idea it would be espeacially with the cash cows B&I Lions tours have become almost more prestige than a World Cup

#116 yipyee

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:55 PM

Yeah they did but realised what an utterly insane idea it would be espeacially with the cash cows B&I Lions tours have become almost more prestige than a World Cup


no they won, if they had lost again the fallout would have been like the last ones....that a thrown together team cant beat one that regularly play together!

The same was being said about the babas




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