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Bradford Appeal..


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#21 OMEGA

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:40 AM

Six points is the precedent for going into admin, this can be mitigated down to 4 points if the new owner pays a number of creditors what was owed by the previous regime.

 

The potential complication here is that the new owner was owed money by the old regime and he could transfer money from A to B to C to make it look like he's paid money to creditors whilst actually only paying himself.

I'm sure the RFL are aware of that and won't collude with the Bulls in an attempt to dress this up as being legit and then try to sell it to the wider RL community by way of some half assed fancy worded press release expecting them to fall for it.



#22 Konkrete

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:48 AM

Six points is the precedent for going into admin, this can be mitigated down to 4 points if the new owner pays a number of creditors what was owed by the previous regime.

 

The potential complication here is that the new owner was owed money by the old regime and he could transfer money from A to B to C to make it look like he's paid money to creditors whilst actually only paying himself.

I'm sure the RFL are aware of that and won't collude with the Bulls in an attempt to dress this up as being legit and then try to sell it to the wider RL community by way of some half assed fancy worded press release expecting them to fall for it.

 

This goes straight into my top ten favourite posts of all time.


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#23 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:50 AM

Six points is the precedent for going into admin, this can be mitigated down to 4 points if the new owner pays a number of creditors what was owed by the previous regime.

 

The potential complication here is that the new owner was owed money by the old regime and he could transfer money from A to B to C to make it look like he's paid money to creditors whilst actually only paying himself.

I'm sure the RFL are aware of that and won't collude with the Bulls in an attempt to dress this up as being legit and then try to sell it to the wider RL community by way of some half assed fancy worded press release expecting them to fall for it.

 

Good Lord - how does your mind work????


Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

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#24 chrisl1

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 02:38 PM

Bradford is not the first club to go bust. It is a problem for the whole of Superleague. Therefore, the points loss should be shared by all the clubs.

 

;) :tongue:

Chris Huhne's ex wife should take the lot.



#25 Red Devils PAW

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 03:22 PM

It does seem unfair that unlike other situations with the RFL there does not seem to be the opportunity to increase the penalty

http://www.therfl.co...o-hear-bradford

 

The followers of the club who have suggested that the current regime should not be punished for the problems caused by a previous regime want their cake and the opportunity to eat it - the same suggestion was made by Luton Town FC at one point and rejected after their financial irregularities.

 

The fact that the RFL have been micro-managing the situation at Bradford for some considerable time and they will be selecting the 'independent panel' gives the result before the game is played.


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#26 Dave T

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 03:28 PM

It does seem unfair that unlike other situations with the RFL there does not seem to be the opportunity to increase the penalty

http://www.therfl.co...o-hear-bradford

 

The followers of the club who have suggested that the current regime should not be punished for the problems caused by a previous regime want their cake and the opportunity to eat it - the same suggestion was made by Luton Town FC at one point and rejected after their financial irregularities.

 

The fact that the RFL have been micro-managing the situation at Bradford for some considerable time and they will be selecting the 'independent panel' gives the result before the game is played.

That doesn't make much sense. Surely they could have given a smaller punishment in the first place if they wanted to.



#27 Dave T

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 03:30 PM

I suggest the grounds for appeal, and the fact that those grounds have been accepted by the RFL who (presumably with the club) have agreed to be bound by the outcome, is much the most significant aspect of this announcement?

Don't they automatically have the right to appeal anyway?



#28 Amber Avenger

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 04:10 PM

The followers of the club who have suggested that the current regime should not be punished for the problems caused by a previous regime want their cake and the opportunity to eat it - the same suggestion was made by Luton Town FC at one point and rejected after their financial irregularities.


Not quite. I don't think any Bulls fans are seriously suggesting there should be no punishment at all. The actual annoyance is the current 6 point deduction is - in part - based on a business plan by people who never actually ran the club and ran off. Now someone does actually own the club, it's surely fair that the punishment should reflect how many creditors WILL actually paid back, rather than those which may or may not have been paid back if another board who never owned the damn club hadn't quit two months back? Although - ironically given your speculation of the independent panel - I think you have already made up your mind on the matter regardless of the facts.
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#29 matt newsholme

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 04:27 PM

Six points is the precedent for going into admin, this can be mitigated down to 4 points if the new owner pays a number of creditors what was owed by the previous regime.


Actually six points is only precedent for going into admin and not paying any creditors. It can be mitigated down to zero if all creditors are paid off so new regime gets no financial benefit from the admin. Figure mentioned when glover took over wakefield iirc,was that he paid approx 30% of total debt off, basically suppliers he needed to deal with in future and ignored all the debt to hmrc. Hence a 2 point reduction in the sanction. If he'd chosen to pay a bigger % then amount of points deducted would have been less.

Edited by matt newsholme, 15 April 2014 - 04:28 PM.


#30 Tiny Tim

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:50 PM

Actually six points is only precedent for going into admin and not paying any creditors. It can be mitigated down to zero if all creditors are paid off so new regime gets no financial benefit from the admin. Figure mentioned when glover took over wakefield iirc,was that he paid approx 30% of total debt off, basically suppliers he needed to deal with in future and ignored all the debt to hmrc. Hence a 2 point reduction in the sanction. If he'd chosen to pay a bigger % then amount of points deducted would have been less.

 

So effectively they can choose how many points they want to buy back. Can they buy a couple now and see how they are doing at the end of the season and see if they need a top-up?


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#31 yipyee

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:12 PM

So effectively they can choose how many points they want to buy back. Can they buy a couple now and see how they are doing at the end of the season and see if they need a top-up?


pretty much yes, its a bribe to encourage new owners to pay off old debts they dont need too.....RL is not in a position to pee off investors, sponsors, donors, media, hmrc....
etc

#32 Amber Avenger

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:46 AM

pretty much yes, its a bribe to encourage new owners to pay off old debts they dont need too.....RL is not in a position to pee off investors, sponsors, donors, media, hmrc....
etc

 

Well, I would point out that I doubt you could go back and “top up” (not sure if Tiny Tim was joking or not). I also don’t think you could reduce this to zero points in the first instance as suggested above if you pay off everything. The standard punishment for going into admin in minus two in the RFL guidelines isn’t it, then a further two to four on top of that depending on how many creditors you pay off. Although I note the appeal panel might reduce it to zero if they deem no punishment necessary having looked at all the evidence. I would find this utterly hilarious, but it’s very unlikely.

 


Edited by Amber Avenger, 16 April 2014 - 07:47 AM.

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#33 Dave T

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 08:03 AM

Well, I would point out that I doubt you could go back and “top up” (not sure if Tiny Tim was joking or not). I also don’t think you could reduce this to zero points in the first instance as suggested above if you pay off everything. The standard punishment for going into admin in minus two in the RFL guidelines isn’t it, then a further two to four on top of that depending on how many creditors you pay off. Although I note the appeal panel might reduce it to zero if they deem no punishment necessary having looked at all the evidence. I would find this utterly hilarious, but it’s very unlikely.

i'd see no reason for it to be Wiped to zero depending on circumstances. Surely the point of a competition punishment rather than fine is to put off clubs from having a competitive advantage through writing off debt. If they pay this 100% I dont think there should be any complaints as no advantage or benefit will have been gained.

#34 Amber Avenger

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 08:07 AM

i'd see no reason for it to be Wiped to zero depending on circumstances. Surely the point of a competition punishment rather than fine is to put off clubs from having a competitive advantage through writing off debt. If they pay this 100% I dont think there should be any complaints as no advantage or benefit will have been gained.

 

I agree, but I'm just pointing out what I thought the guidelines were.


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#35 Bulliac

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 08:53 AM

Don't they automatically have the right to appeal anyway?

Funnily enough, despite what was said on Backchat, last night, it wasn't the club who appealed but the administrtator, a month or two back - presumably, on the basis that he'd get more for the club without the loss of points. Obviously, the club are going to run with it though - daft not to, to be honest.


Edited by Bulliac, 16 April 2014 - 08:55 AM.

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#36 weloveyouwakefield2

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:38 PM

http://www1.skysport...-backchat-ep-18 Covered on here, Michael Carter says he will walk away from rugby league if Bradford get the six points back after Wakefield were told they would 'more than likely' be demoted if they went into adminstration last year...


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#37 weloveyouwakefield2

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:41 PM

http://www.thetelegr...upheld/?ref=rss


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#38 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:44 PM

Good on him.The bulls have broken the rules and been punished.That punishment should remain.


Edited by terrywebbisgod, 16 April 2014 - 06:46 PM.

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#39 Amber Avenger

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 09:57 PM

yet it seems to me we’re not playing off the same playing field here.


I'm sure Bradford will be the first to agree that it certainly hasn't been a level playing field in the past two years, Mr Chairman. :)

Edited by Amber Avenger, 16 April 2014 - 09:59 PM.

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#40 Wolford6

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 11:10 PM

I hope we stay up but, if we go down, we'll take it on the chin. That's why we are Bulls fans and not a bunch of  smalltime carpers with an agenda.


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