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Bradford Appeal..


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#41 OMEGA

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 12:16 AM

Actually six points is only precedent for going into admin and not paying any creditors. It can be mitigated down to zero if all creditors are paid off so new regime gets no financial benefit from the admin. Figure mentioned when glover took over wakefield iirc,was that he paid approx 30% of total debt off, basically suppliers he needed to deal with in future and ignored all the debt to hmrc. Hence a 2 point reduction in the sanction. If he'd chosen to pay a bigger % then amount of points deducted would have been less.


Actually there is no precedent for a club to have all the deducted points returned so I was correct with my first post.

#42 OMEGA

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 12:20 AM

Good Lord - how does your mind work????


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#43 brooza

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:51 AM

Good on him.The bulls have broken the rules and been punished.That punishment should remain.

bUT THEY WERE PUNISHED BASED ON SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN

 

(sorry for caps lock)


Edited by brooza, 17 April 2014 - 08:51 AM.

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#44 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:15 AM

bUT THEY WERE PUNISHED BASED ON SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN

 

(sorry for caps lock)

Did I miss the bit where the Bulls went into administration?


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#45 Wollo Wollo Wayoo

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:59 AM

Did I miss the bit where the Bulls went into administration?


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#46 Amber Avenger

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:23 AM

Brooza isn't a Bulls fan, although I can't confidently say some Bulls fans aren't deluded.


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#47 Red Willow

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:45 AM

What happens if a club undertakes to repay debts over 5 years, so obtaining the reduced point deduction but never repays anything. Would the RFL apply a further point deduction in 5 years time?



#48 brooza

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:57 PM

Did I miss the bit where the Bulls went into administration?

The points deduction isn't just for going into administration, it's also for how you come out of it.

 

The point deduction they received was for coming out of administration a couple of months ago (which I'm fairly sure they didnt, or if they did it was only for a few hours). Any points deduction should be based on htem coming out with Greene as the owner.


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#49 Old Frightful

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:22 PM

How disappointing.

 

I thought this was a thread about a new name for the club.


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#50 Loiner

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:47 PM

I hope we stay up but, if we go down, we'll take it on the chin. That's why we are Bulls fans and not a bunch of  smalltime carpers with an agenda.

six points it is then.



#51 OMEGA

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:09 PM

The points deduction isn't just for going into administration, it's also for how you come out of it.

 

The point deduction they received was for coming out of administration a couple of months ago (which I'm fairly sure they didnt, or if they did it was only for a few hours). Any points deduction should be based on htem coming out with Greene as the owner.

I beg to differ, It's my understanding that 6 points is the punishment for an insolvency event, which Administration is, there is a precedent for that being reduced to 4 points depending on how you come out of it, i.e. paying some or all of the creditors.



#52 Bulliac

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:24 AM

I beg to differ, It's my understanding that 6 points is the punishment for an insolvency event, which Administration is, there is a precedent for that being reduced to 4 points depending on how you come out of it, i.e. paying some or all of the creditors.

...and losing [over] half your competition money fits into these 'precedents' where, exactly?


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#53 OMEGA

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:30 AM

...and losing [over] half your competition money fits into these 'precedents' where, exactly?


Into the bit where you're repaying some of the loans and wage bills made to and for you by the RFL

#54 Johnoco

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:36 AM

Into the bit where you're repaying some of the loans and wage bills made to and for you by the RFL

Which loan was this? Not the *advance* of the sky money. ...ie not a loan

#55 matt newsholme

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:41 AM

Into the bit where you're repaying some of the loans and wage bills made to and for you by the RFL


Not that that old myth again. Loan from RFL was repaid in full by sale of odsal lease. Advances to cover wages during first admin were approx 360k iirc (exact amounts documented in administrators report) which were covered by remaining sky payments due to club that year anyway. Sky money deduction was totally unrelated to both issues.

Edited by matt newsholme, 20 April 2014 - 11:42 AM.


#56 Blind side johnny

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:05 PM

Of course, longer term, if Bradford do get let off some or all of this punishment then another club gets relegated at the end of the season with a small gap between them and Bradford, the possibilities of legal action by that club against their relegation are immense.

 

It should take something really exceptional (as distinct from "it's just not fair") to reverse this punishment otherwise more trouble will be forthcoming for the RFL.


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#57 Konkrete

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:35 AM

Of course, longer term, if Bradford do get let off some or all of this punishment then another club gets relegated at the end of the season with a small gap between them and Bradford, the possibilities of legal action by that club against their relegation are immense.
 
It should take something really exceptional (as distinct from "it's just not fair") to reverse this punishment otherwise more trouble will be forthcoming for the RFL.

If points are returned to us then the independent legal panel will have judged the the deduction of points, or number of points deducted, was unfair in the first place. Not the other way round.

If there were to be a legal challenge by say Wakefield following their relegation as a result then I'd have thought they would need to successfully prove that either our appeal through the RFL was not due process, or the outcome (assuming points deduction reduction) was an incorrect judgement based on the facts provided and within the terms of reference.

People should understand that this appeal is being heard by an independent legal panel, not big Nige and his mates down the pub. Also, it's not some made up challenge from us that the RFL are reacting to. An appeal is part of SL process and procedure.

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#58 Vikingstorm

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:55 AM

Of course, longer term, if Bradford do get let off some or all of this punishment then another club gets relegated at the end of the season with a small gap between them and Bradford, the possibilities of legal action by that club against their relegation are immense.

 

It should take something really exceptional (as distinct from "it's just not fair") to reverse this punishment otherwise more trouble will be forthcoming for the RFL.

Bradford fans should accept the deduction, as other clubs have done....they should go away and re-build in the lower division and allow better managed teams to take their place....then perhaps in two or three years they will be back, well managed and competent


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#59 Bulliac

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:54 AM

Into the bit where you're repaying some of the loans and wage bills made to and for you by the RFL

 

Money taken and dished out to the other clubs is the same as paying back debts [which, incidentally didn't exist]. You couldn't make it up....oh hang on..


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#60 Bulliac

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:00 AM

Bradford fans should accept the deduction, as other clubs have done....they should go away and re-build in the lower division and allow better managed teams to take their place....then perhaps in two or three years they will be back, well managed and competent

No other club has ever had a deduction of monies due to insolvency, so maybe you could supply a list?  - every other club has had a points deduction, if anything.

 

The 'logic' of taking money from clubs in financial difficulties still has me scratching my head.


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