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NRL or Super League? Which has the best standard of play?


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#21 Saintslass

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:40 PM


One of my pet hates from back when I had Sky and I presume they still do this. Whenever someone does something spectacular in a SL game, Eddie will start going on about how everybody would be raving about this play if it was an Aussie doing this. Not sure which people he was on about. I think we all know both leagues have hugely talented players capable of something special, it's just the NRL has more of them unfortunately.

The point Eddie makes is a valid one and I think a number of posters on here are backing him up.  Take Tommy Makinson's acrobatic tries.  We ooh and aah at similar tries scored in the NRL but do we do that when we watch Tommy Makinson?  Are we bigging him up in the way the wingers performing such tries in the NRL are bigged up by English fans for doing the same thing?  Eddie suggests not, and I would agree with him.  As a sport we should be boasting about T Mak's try scoring ability.  How many wingers in the NRL can pull off such tries?  Very few.  And they don't do it very often.  My guess is that when people on here see NRL players pulling off such tries they don't talk about poor defences or a lower standard of play or whatever but they wonder at the try being scored.  Those same people will, however, say that Tommy Makinson scoring such tries is probably because the opposition defences are poor or the referee is bent and he wouldn't be able to pull such tries off against NRL opposition.  And there you have the real problem IMO.  So many SL fans kiss Aussie ass rather than point to those among our own stock who are on equal terms - and we have enough of them if only we would recognise them and celebrate them.


Edited by Saintslass, 14 April 2014 - 08:41 PM.


#22 Superdude

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:00 PM

Are you Tommy Makinson's mother? 



#23 londonrlfan

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:01 PM

And there you have the real problem IMO.  So many SL fans kiss Aussie ass rather than point to those among our own stock who are on equal terms - and we have enough of them if only we would recognise them and celebrate them.

 

Yep, the sad thing for me is that, I feel England's current coach is the same! When he was running around to find as many NRL Aussies as possible to get in the England squad, Jack Reed and Chris Heighnington were drafted into the squad for the 4 Nations and I can't say either stood out. Now with MacNamara at an NRL team, I feel he will be looking out for even more players to call up. The problem is all about mental issues, players need to believe they can beat the Aussies and they need to have a coach who they believe also believes that they can. All this talk about NRL this and Origin that, but unless we believe 100% we can beat them, we won't. We need to stop treating the Aussies as demi-Gods and start realising we have players that are just as good. 



#24 Jbb10

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:10 PM

It depends which team you are watching, the standard is different for them all. If it's NZ Warriors vs Cronulla or Wigan vs Saints, then Wigan vs Saints is a much higher standard.

. Warriors vs cronulla would be far better !!!!

Edited by Jbb10, 14 April 2014 - 09:11 PM.


#25 Eldujo

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:10 PM

The point Eddie makes is a valid one and I think a number of posters on here are backing him up.  Take Tommy Makinson's acrobatic tries.  We ooh and aah at similar tries scored in the NRL but do we do that when we watch Tommy Makinson?  Are we bigging him up in the way the wingers performing such tries in the NRL are bigged up by English fans for doing the same thing?  Eddie suggests not, and I would agree with him.  As a sport we should be boasting about T Mak's try scoring ability.  How many wingers in the NRL can pull off such tries?  Very few.  And they don't do it very often.  My guess is that when people on here see NRL players pulling off such tries they don't talk about poor defences or a lower standard of play or whatever but they wonder at the try being scored.  Those same people will, however, say that Tommy Makinson scoring such tries is probably because the opposition defences are poor or the referee is bent and he wouldn't be able to pull such tries off against NRL opposition.  And there you have the real problem IMO.  So many SL fans kiss Aussie ass rather than point to those among our own stock who are on equal terms - and we have enough of them if only we would recognise them and celebrate them.

I can only speak for myself here but I ooh and aah (though not always out loud) whichever league the spectacular try is scored in. It always felt to me like a little bit of northern chippiness when I'd hear Eddie saying this. SL is a great product and we don't need to compare ourselves to the NRL whenever we do something good. Celebrate it for the great bit of skill it is rather than commenting on how we don't pat ourselves on the back enough.

 

As for bigging up our wingers, don't we already have WBW in Ryan Hall. You can't pay a much bigger compliment than that and I see that often on here. I'd put him second myself behind Brett Morris but there's not much in it.

 

I think you'd struggle to find anyone who's not impressed with Makinson this year, certainly not with his finishing. Think Charnley will be kicking his heels in the 4 Nations if Makinson's form continues. Add in Burgess from Wigan, Briscoe at Leeds and Johnson at Salford and he might be struggling to make the squad. Plus Swift and Lineham at Hull and I don't think we're too shabby out wide.


Edited by Eldujo, 14 April 2014 - 09:20 PM.


#26 Northern Sol

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:19 PM

Close - NSW / QLD Cup teams are competitive with the lower half of super league (not just London Broncos) IMO having watched both

 

I would love it if a Queensland Cup XIII took on the cream of the Championship. Mind you at the current rate that might well be the "World Club Challenge" of the future.

 

The thing is that you can't just pick a decent Queensland cup player and put him in a SL side and expect him to be up to SL standard. Crusaders and Broncos have shown that Queensland (or NSW) cup players are rarely good enough.



#27 thirteenthman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:31 PM

The point Eddie makes is a valid one and I think a number of posters on here are backing him up.  Take Tommy Makinson's acrobatic tries.  We ooh and aah at similar tries scored in the NRL but do we do that when we watch Tommy Makinson?  Are we bigging him up in the way the wingers performing such tries in the NRL are bigged up by English fans for doing the same thing?  Eddie suggests not, and I would agree with him.  As a sport we should be boasting about T Mak's try scoring ability.  

 

I was under the impression that most people thought it was a great try. The problem for me with what Eddie said was his timing. A great try has just been scored, but for some reason he immediately makes a comment about how people would talk it up more if it were scored in the NRL. Why say that? He's the commentator for SL matches. He's the one who should be talking it up. And no one even mentioned the NRL til he did. He'd have been better off talking about the try.



#28 Eldujo

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:44 PM

Of course if the NRL is truly lightyears ahead, that would explain the number of SL players going over there and standing out. Even players like Luke Burgess and Mike Cooper are regulars in the NRL, but weren't in SL. No doubt the NRL fanboys will claim that the NRL made James Graham, Gareth Ellis and Adrian Morley the players they are today. 

Not sure I've ever heard anyone claim that Graham, Ellis & Morley were anything less than great players before they moved to Oz. They weren't signed as projects, they were signed because they were highly rated and pretty much the finished article before moving.

 

Think I've replied before on L Burgess but the same goes for Mike Cooper. Both play pretty much the same role as they did for Leeds and Warrington. Decent, tough forwards here, decent tough forwards over there too. There will always be spots in team's squads for players like them on both sides of the globe.



#29 gutterfax

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:47 PM

St Helens, Leeds and Wigan wouldn't look out of place in the NRL play-offs, but the rest wouldn't make their end of season jamboree.

 

It's a mixture of intensity, skill and execution......the NRL just seem to be slightly better in al three areas, but this year, SL has caught up.



#30 YCKonstantine

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:00 PM

You're not likely to see a finish like Cas-Saints down under with the ball being tossed around from wing to wing

That's funny because exactly that happened this morning. Melbourne scored a try after the hooter to win the game.


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#31 RSN

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:00 PM

It's hard to make a comparison. The obvious way you can compare is between players who have played in both recently.

The only back who has gone there is Tomkins. A superstar in SL but doesnt stand out as much in the NRL. The Warriors have scored 21 tries in the NRL this year. Tomkins has scored 3 of them, assisted 5 (was the last player to touch the ball before his team mate scored) and on 5 other occasions he pretty much created the space for the try (the 3 occasions against West Tigers are examples of this where Fishaii scored but Tomkins was the one who put Hurrell into a huge amount of space) that obviously isn't as prolific as at Wigan then but he is playing at a side who perform much worse in the competition (regardless if he is playing or not) Tomkins is doing okay. Obviously with the nature of the way he's gone over there he is going to be criticised far more heavily than he is praised but all in all he is doing above average. He's made a couple of errors but so has every player in the NRL (I think more tries this year are coming directly from errors rather than skill IMO) he's not as good as he was in SL so that probably implies the NRL is better? Or is it due to him playing for the side who got the wooden spoon last year not the team who won the double it will be hard to tell.

The forwards you've obviously got James Graham, Sam Burgess, Luke Burgess, Mike Cooper, Tom and George Burgess who are the poms who have gone over there. Players who have played in SL in the pack recently and gone back to the NRL are Sam Moa and Ryan Hoffman. I do not think you can make a comparison with the younger 3 Burgess clan as they were only very young when they played in SL. Every player I named above have stood out more in the NRL than they did in SL IMO. James Graham asserted himself as the best prop in the world. Luke Burgess was on fire and tearing it up despite not being able to get into the Leeds side. Ryan Hoffman has been excellent and scored in the 2012 GF. I did not take note of Moa at Hull and now at the Roosters he has been superb whenever I have seen him. Cooper has also been very good when I have seen him play this year. I will be very surprised if Lee Mossop does not excel either.

You look at forwards going the other way and how many ex SOO forwards have quite frankly been shocking. Josh Perry was awful. Justin Poore has been shocking. Anthony Laffranchi has been average. Michael Weyman has probably been just above average but not setting the world alight. These are just names off the top of my head. I am sure people can name others at their clubs who look disinterested.

The half backs and outside backs do tend to excel when coming over here to be fair though. Hull KR pretty much relied on Dobson, Holdsworth ran things at Salford and Hull, Luke Walsh is a star over here, Chase could not get a gig in the NRL, Tim Smith carried Wakefield for a while yet none of the players named previous were classed as particularly good half backs. I'd say they were average in the NRL but very good in SL hence you'd say the NRL is a higher standard. Maybe the Aussie halves are better at controlling a game in SL. I think a lot of our halves don't have the arrogance and confidence of their Aussie counter parts to really control a game. I don't mean it in a bad way but when they come over they really can take the game by a scruff of a neck. Maybe this is why they can perform better and look better than they do in the NRL and look more affective? We have had a few along these lines in Briers, Brough and Long but all the NRL half backs which come over who did average in the NRL seem to have this ability.

The class between the Roosters and Wigan earlier this year is no indication. The Wigan side which won the league last year was minus Tomkins, Richards, Mossop, O Loughlin was playing injured and Harrison Hansen. Not the same side whatsoever. Wigan were missing their best players from the previous season and as this season is showing they aren't as good as the best of SL.

I think the NRL is consistently a better league. The thing which does bemuse me is how forwards seem to excel in the NRL but not in SL. Maybe the extra intensity makes them step up their games? I really don't know. Leeds & St Helens would be among the top 5 in the NRL IMO if they had sides based in Aus. I think Hull, Huddersfield, Warrington, Wigan a full fit Catalan would all compete fine and make up the numbers between 5 - 14. Everyone else would get beat consistently IMO and the bottom 3 would have 50 points put past them regularly. I like watching them both equally to be honest. They're both playing the greatest game.

I want to see more backs going over their though. Especially our full backs in Hardaker, Lomax and Shaul. I'm sure they'd be great over there.

#32 Eldujo

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:08 PM

 

Luke Walsh not considered a good player in the NRL then?  That's not what the pundits said when I watched every Penrith game last season.

 

There's an element of truth in what Red Rooster says. It's a long time since we've had one of the top Aussie's sign for a club over here. That's not to say we've not had some good uns, just not anyone likely to break into the Australia's first XIII. We've had Bird (here under a cloud) and Todd Carney was linked (same again) plus Joel Monaghan (same yet again). Hopefully I've not forgotten someone who has done this and I end up looking like a lemon :sclerosis: . In the opposite direction, the Aussie teams seem to have the pick of our best (though not all of them). Not that surprising with the disparity in salary cap and strong dollar really.

 

Walsh is obviously one of the good ones but I think Saints were a little lucky to get him. I say lucky but really it was a great bit of business getting him when they did. If they'd hung around till the end of the season, I think they may have been outbid. I'm pretty sure Newcastle would welcome him back with open arms right about now. 

 

Reason I say they were lucky is all about the timing. At the point Penrith deemed he was surplus to requirements, he'd started the season well but was not really considered to be the solution to their problems. Saints then dived in and signed him and Walsh went on to have a great season with the Panthers.

 

Even though Walsh is playing superbly at Saints, I'd say Penrith are no worse off without him. Both Wallace and Soward are playing good stuff and both were signed under similar circumstances to Walsh. They are both good talents but were under appreciated at their previous clubs at the time of their moving. 



#33 Eldujo

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:09 PM

That's funny because exactly that happened this morning. Melbourne scored a try after the hooter to win the game.

Well you've ruined that game for me. Please try not to do spoilers, some of us don't get chance to watch live.



#34 eal

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:25 PM

A handful of SL teams could compete in the NRL , the rest would be smashed week-in week-out.



#35 back to the future

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:30 PM

Could you imagine London,Bradford,Wakey and a few others playing in the NRL on a regular basis.
No disrespect to their supporters

#36 Saintslass

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 06:51 AM

Are you Tommy Makinson's mother? 

I hope that was ironic.  If it wasn't then you'd be giving weight to my point.

 

For the record, I used Tommy Makinson as an example because his exploits were freshest in my mind following the game against Cas and because he's one of my team's players and so I know more about him in playing terms than I do about players from other teams that I obviously don't watch as often as my own team.  Examples could be given from other teams but because I don't support those other teams I don't automatically think of their players.



#37 YCKonstantine

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:41 AM

Well you've ruined that game for me. Please try not to do spoilers, some of us don't get chance to watch live.

Don't come on a topic with NRL in the name?


It's time to park the camels.

 

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#38 Eldujo

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:43 AM

Don't come on a topic with NRL in the name?

Good attitude, thanks again. 



#39 Eldujo

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:46 AM

Good attitude, thanks again. 

Sorry, didn't mean that to be snarky, you're right, I'd normally avoid the forum until the end of the week but I'm working away with little to do so had a mooch round the site last night.



#40 YCKonstantine

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:07 AM

Sorry, didn't mean that to be snarky, you're right, I'd normally avoid the forum until the end of the week but I'm working away with little to do so had a mooch round the site last night.

Indeed. If I'm waiting to watch MotD on a Saturday I avoid going on the internet at all costs, nevermind would I go on a designated football forum.

 

  Sorry if I ruined the result for you but my comment was on topic, as it being about current day NRL & SL, and was also relevant to your comment in which you mentioned you wouldn't get a finish like Cas v St Helens (where you also bring up a match from this weekend).


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