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International expansion

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90 replies to this topic

#1 jus de couchon

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:12 PM

Despite the heralded RLWC the game hasn't done much to expand in any meaningful way. The profits from the RLWC should be spent on developing League in South Africa. The Pacific Nations have a legitimate call to be part of a larger League community but they are too small. S.A already have a  vibrant black rugby playing population who still struggle to be Included in the "White" game. The potential there is huge. Why not?



#2 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:02 PM

Nevermind just SA, whilst RU has developed in Italy, Argentina and Japan the people running the game struggle to promote outside of the usual areas.

Toulouse and Avignon are ripe for professional teams yet we offer no direct pathways for them to play at pro level. So many lost opportunities.

#3 yipyee

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:01 PM

Nevermind just SA, whilst RU has developed in Italy, Argentina and Japan the people running the game struggle to promote outside of the usual areas.

Toulouse and Avignon are ripe for professional teams yet we offer no direct pathways for them to play at pro level. So many lost opportunities.


true, start at strong points and the snowball will start to roll!

#4 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:37 AM

Nevermind just SA, whilst RU has developed in Italy, Argentina and Japan the people running the game struggle to promote outside of the usual areas.

Toulouse and Avignon are ripe for professional teams yet we offer no direct pathways for them to play at pro level. So many lost opportunities.

They won't fit in to the 3x8 system unless they adopt a method similar to the one I suggested last year. P&R for a French club from a British semi pro league would be a huge hurdle that they shouldn't have to jump.

As for international extension, without a mid season international window, it'll be the same old same old.
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#5 gnidir

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:15 AM

My ideal top tier, 10 teams form the UK, 9 French, 1 Italian.

2 conferences.

Play each conference team home and away, play each cross conference team once.

 

1 overall Euro super league title, 2 minor titles.

 

Less teams in the UK forces talent to France if they want to play top level. 

 

Potential for massive sponsor increase, broadcast every game, lions share to pay TV, 1 or 2 games a week to free to air, means more exposure for everyone, bigger catchment areas, closer games.

 

I reckon it will be more competitive than 3 8's, and more stable to build club player and fan bases, unfortunately, some of the smaller clubs will have to play in a 'Heartlands championship' like the NSW cup in Oz, I think its just a reality that some teams simply don't have enough room to grow into big clubs.



#6 JohnM

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:40 AM

Too busy diluting the UK game through the new structure to be bothered with expansion. No discernible increase in support at Leigh , Fax, etc despite the injection of "jeopardy ", embarrassing retreat from London. Concentrating on cutting the same cake into more but smaller slices rather than making a bigger cake. Managed decline?

#7 jus de couchon

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:10 PM

S.L needs to stop reinventing itself. Forget the 8x3. Take the EPL template and stick with it. London should be relegated and rebuild. The game is administrated by Incompetent fantasists. Whats the next big "Idea" going to be? Let me guess. Reduce the team from 13 to 9 and play the whole S.L season over Easter. Managed decline is too kind a description of Stupidity.


Edited by jus de couchon, 22 April 2014 - 01:11 PM.


#8 keighley

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:17 PM

Too busy diluting the UK game through the new structure to be bothered with expansion. No discernible increase in support at Leigh , Fax, etc despite the injection of "jeopardy ", embarrassing retreat from London. Concentrating on cutting the same cake into more but smaller slices rather than making a bigger cake. Managed decline?

 

The preferred option from the top teams is to contract to 10 teams and to hell with expansion, so I think you are dreaming with your proposed conferences not that conferences arn't a good idea because they are. The beauty of them from an expansionary viewpoint is that if sufficient teams arise to justify it, then just form a third conference. That's what the NFL did when they expanded nationwide



#9 JohnM

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:46 PM

Think I may have missed something. I don't recall proposing any "conferences"



#10 keighley

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:14 PM

Think I may have missed something. I don't recall proposing any "conferences"

 

Sorry. It was proposed in post #5.



#11 JohnM

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:24 PM

Sorry. It was proposed in post #5.

 

I see now, and I agree with you.



#12 jus de couchon

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:48 PM

Forget conferences. Have a 2 up 2 down system league. End of and stop the fiddling . The sport aint broke. It don't need fixing.



#13 The Parksider

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:27 AM

S.L needs to stop reinventing itself. Forget the 8x3. Take the EPL template and stick with it. London should be relegated and rebuild. The game is administrated by Incompetent fantasists.

 

What's the "EPL Template"? Who will provide the money to "re-build" London? The game is administered by people carrying out the wishes of the clubs.

 

It's the fantasists that talk of "conferences" that would in reality be very badly mismatched leagues.

 

But hang on? Isn't 3x8 a way of creating a badly mismatched league? Professionals.v.Semi professionals?



#14 longboard

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:20 AM

Troll alert.



#15 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:56 AM

Forget conferences. Have a 2 up 2 down system league. End of and stop the fiddling . The sport aint broke. It don't need fixing.

"Stop fiddling with the league. It doesn't need changing, except to my idea of 2 up 2 down."

Slightly hypocritical in your approach there, my friend.
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#16 westlondonfan

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:18 AM

There is some potential for real international expansion in my view. Start with France and PNG and work out what it would take to make them more competitive in International matches.
It is not just rugby union that has expanded look at cricket over the last 30 or so years. (Look at the progress made by teams like Ireland and the Netherlands.)

#17 londonrlfan

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:06 AM

There is some potential for real international expansion in my view. Start with France and PNG and work out what it would take to make them more competitive in International matches.
It is not just rugby union that has expanded look at cricket over the last 30 or so years. (Look at the progress made by teams like Ireland and the Netherlands.)

 

Well the Dutch team are just Australians basically, no different to the 'Italy' team we saw at the WC.

 

France and PNG are getting more players into SL and NRL, which is the best way to grow the sport in the short term, but I still believe there could be a pro French league. 

 

The growth for RL in the last decade has mostly come from Europe and North America (inc. Jamaica), so they are the areas we should be looking to grow imo. The Balkans/Southern Europe area looks to have had great growth with Serbia, Bosnia and Greece doing well, we need to try and grow the sport in Macedonia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Albania and Croatia as well (combined they have around 18m population, so not exactly a tiny region). We should be using the WC profits to send development officers to these countries. Also NA and Jamaica have grown pretty fast in the last 5 years or so, we need development officers in Canada, especially BC, and I would say Florida and Rhode Island as well, due to their development, especially with schools.

 

Australia and NZ need to do more to help develop the Asian market, including playing an ANZAC test match there and NRL match or NRL trial match. I would say either South Korea or Japan, but I know they were talking about China, so maybe there.  



#18 keighley

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:22 PM

What's the "EPL Template"? Who will provide the money to "re-build" London? The game is administered by people carrying out the wishes of the clubs.

 

It's the fantasists that talk of "conferences" that would in reality be very badly mismatched leagues.

 

But hang on? Isn't 3x8 a way of creating a badly mismatched league? Professionals.v.Semi professionals?

 

And do you think they will be more mismatched than Leeds v Broncos or Wigan v Wakefield or St Helens V Bradford.

 

 

What we are doing now is getting rid of two or more current SL teams and denying the top echelon Championship teams, i.e Leigh, Fev, Halifax and potential SL teams like Toulouse a chance to be SL teams with this rigged 3 x 8 nonsense. With the conference system all can be accommodated without rigging the system as in the 3 x 8, or denying wannabees like Toulouse, or removing a London team or a Bradford or Wakefield or whomever the axe might fall upon.

 

If they fail they fail and can be removed at will OR newly qualified teams who might step up via a big time financial input or on field success by be incorporated seamlessly into the structure.  Given that the USA is a huge country and needs some sort of regionalisation afforded by conferences, it has proven a

tremendous vehicle for expanding the size of their leagues in all their major sports but especially the NFL without the need to remove any existing franchises.

 

it is a perfect system for the NRL if they want to expand and the indications are that they do. It solves the fixtures dilemma and preserves the best of current structures

by having a big emphasis of derby games but retaining top team competition with more distant clubs.

 

It is well worth looking at for SL as a way of increasing the numbers of teams in it as well as improving the geographical spread of the competition.

 

As much as some desire a cut down, northern rump competition as a panacea for all the problems of SL, I don't believe contraction is good in the long term for the best interests of the game nor will it be attractive to  broadcasters, who want a wide swathe of the population to be attracted to their networks.



#19 westlondonfan

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:57 PM

Well the Dutch team are just Australians basically, no different to the 'Italy' team we saw at the WC.



Westlondonfan says...,.


To equate the Netherlands cricket scene with RL in Italy is to do Dutch cricket a great disservice in my view!

While I agree there needs to be more PNG and French players playing in the SL and the NRL I think the rest of your post is just fantasy. They may be an ANZAC test played in China (I personally think it is very unlikely) but if there is it will be because money can be made playing there. China is not going to become a league playing nation any time soon , if ever.
TGG just doesn't have the money for the sort of expansion you ate talking about.
RL in the northern hemisphere is also not really interested in international expansion as far as I can see?


Edited by westlondonfan, 23 April 2014 - 08:59 PM.


#20 londonrlfan

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:41 PM

 

Well the Dutch team are just Australians basically, no different to the 'Italy' team we saw at the WC.



Westlondonfan says...,.


To equate the Netherlands cricket scene with RL in Italy is to do Dutch cricket a great disservice in my view!

While I agree there needs to be more PNG and French players playing in the SL and the NRL I think the rest of your post is just fantasy. They may be an ANZAC test played in China (I personally think it is very unlikely) but if there is it will be because money can be made playing there. China is not going to become a league playing nation any time soon , if ever.
TGG just doesn't have the money for the sort of expansion you ate talking about.
RL in the northern hemisphere is also not really interested in international expansion as far as I can see?

 

 

I think you miss understand me then, I wasn't saying China would become some dominant RL nation. But the NRL, well Canberra and Manly, were looking at taking an NRL game there and I think the NRL should be dong more to promote the game in the Far East, as they will need a new market to grow into, with Australia and NZ having only small populations. Even the AFL have taken games to China, so why can't the NRL? Yeah it would be about money, but that's the point!

 

I don't think the idea of development officers is unrealistic or fantasy. These areas have done well to grow the sport with no money, so imagine a development officer going into schools and promoting and developing the game. It's more important imo to have domestic grassroots, and schools playing RL in countries, than trying to big up another nation with heritage players. 

 

In terms of a new powerhouse rising, the only likely candidates I can see anytime soon are France or Italy (if they're stuffed with Aussies).






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