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International expansion

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#41 Bob8

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:20 PM

The International sporting landscape may be permanent now. NFL in America. Football in Brazil. Table tennis in China. Perhaps spending money to Introduce a foreign game is throwing money away. In the ESL Bradford and London are bleeding as are several others. Best to grow the game from a strong position than speculate the hard earned on some whimsical overseas experiment.

How much money do you think is spent and will you ensure the other sports buy into your truce?


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#42 The Parksider

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:13 AM

Best to grow the game from a strong position than speculate the hard earned on some whimsical overseas experiment.

 

Which strong position is this?



#43 Mr Wind Up

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:37 AM

The International sporting landscape may be permanent now. NFL in America. Football in Brazil. Table tennis in China. Perhaps spending money to Introduce a foreign game is throwing money away. In the ESL Bradford and London are bleeding as are several others. Best to grow the game from a strong position than speculate the hard earned on some whimsical overseas experiment.

 

Tell that to football, which has done exactly that in new markets over the last 20-30 years. 

 

I agree that English money should not be spent on developing the game overseas. It should be down to the RLIF. 



#44 latchford albion

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:24 PM

This is key.  Media used to be local and national.  Indeed, whatever sport a region was playing at the onset of mass media is almost certainly the sport it plays today. 

 

However, things are changing and media is less geographically based and as a result sport is less and less geographically based.  Forty years ago, the only team sports in Copenhagen were soccer, handball and a small amount of rugby union.  Now, there is soccer, handball, rugby league, american football, gaelic football, cricket, roller derby, korfball and a small amount of rugby union.   The same will be happening in Leeds, Wigan and St Helens.

Korfball's coming to town,

In your diary write it down,

Roll on October, hip hip hooray,

Joy in Leeuwarden for sure ... :tongue:



#45 londonrlfan

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 07:34 PM

Tell that to football, which has done exactly that in new markets over the last 20-30 years. 

 

I agree that English money should not be spent on developing the game overseas. It should be down to the RLIF. 

 

Exactly, football in Japan has exploded in the last 20 years or so, which is why the Premier League teams are going there for their pre-season tours to capitalize on the market. Basketball has grown huge in China in the last decade or so.

How do you grow the game in a new country without giving them something in return? That's why the NRL should take trial matches to Asia imo. We saw the Rabbitohs play Leeds in Jacksonville a few years ago, so why not something similar in Japan for example. 



#46 jus de couchon

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:04 PM

Ask yourself the question , why has International RL failed to happen? The game is a great spectator sport. The product is excellent .My belief is that its failure to expand is directly a result of bad management. How accountable are these managers? Not very. Look at Bradford. The game will wither and die if the status quo is allowed to continue.

#47 Big Picture

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:22 PM

PNG , Fiji and Wales too.

That's not accurate in the case of Fiji.  13 of their 24 World Cup players were born in Australia and  4 of the Fijian-born players (Sisa Waqa, Akuila Uate, Aaron Groom and Petero Civoniceva) moved to Australia with their families as kids and came through the Aussie junior RL system.  The rest of the Fijian-born players all seem to have come from junior RU backgrounds.



#48 Mr Wind Up

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:18 AM

Ask yourself the question , why has International RL failed to happen? The game is a great spectator sport. The product is excellent .My belief is that its failure to expand is directly a result of bad management. How accountable are these managers? Not very. Look at Bradford. The game will wither and die if the status quo is allowed to continue.

 

The game has lots of influence and cultural importance in Australia, yet there are still no teams in Perth or Adelaide. Super League still doesn't have teams in many major cities. I don't think we can criticise nations when it comes to expansion as they can't rely on the base that exists in England and Australia.  



#49 EdinburghExile

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:37 PM

Korfball's coming to town,

In your diary write it down,

Roll on October, hip hip hooray,

Joy in Leeuwarden for sure ... :tongue:

There are more korfball clubs in Scotland than rugby league clubs, and that with absolutely ###### all investment. Quite absurd on the face of it!



#50 londonrlfan

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 06:17 PM

Ask yourself the question , why has International RL failed to happen? The game is a great spectator sport. The product is excellent .My belief is that its failure to expand is directly a result of bad management. How accountable are these managers? Not very. Look at Bradford. The game will wither and die if the status quo is allowed to continue.

 

I would say one reason being the powers that be want to keep it that way and number two, laziness. Why would Australia, for example, want the game to take off in say Spain and have the best domestic championship and national team from Spain? I know the RFL get a lot of criticism regarding expansion, but over the last 15 years, we've had SL teams from France, Wales and Gateshead, as well as semi pro teams in South Wales, North Wales, Oxford, Hemel, Haringey and Gloucestershire. In comparison, what have the French federation done to get more clubs from central and north France in the game? What have NZ done to develop the game more around the country? Why do countries like Scotland and Ireland still have so few teams? etc. 


Edited by londonrlfan, 29 April 2014 - 06:22 PM.


#51 Bob8

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 07:57 PM

Ask yourself the question , why has International RL failed to happen? The game is a great spectator sport. The product is excellent .My belief is that its failure to expand is directly a result of bad management. How accountable are these managers? Not very. Look at Bradford. The game will wither and die if the status quo is allowed to continue.

I feel I am in a good position to answer your question.

 

A quick look at the relative popularity of sports shows that the quality as a spectator sport is not very important.  The most important thing is was it the main sport at the onset of mass media.  Beyond that, it comes down to money for marketing and media profile, so soccer and american football does fairly well, but most sports struggle.
 

That said, in line with other poor and relatively small sports, we are increasingly getting small niches in many markets around the world.  The trick is to make the profitable and self sustaining, whereas most sports get nowhere in this.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#52 Futtocks

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:17 PM

One of the main reasons that Rugby League has taken so long to expand internationally is that whoever is notionally in charge of a major country's Rugby League Administration is really only working within the narrow bounds permitted them by the club chairmen. And if they push too hard against those restraints, the clubs will get rid of them or otherwise nullify their influence.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#53 jus de couchon

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:24 PM

True Bob . Its difficult to break into established areas with a new sport now . American Football , for all its chutzpah marketing and money never got past first base in London. Games like soccer , golf and tennis were already International before the mass media. How do you grow rugby league Internationaly? Probably 60 years too late.

#54 bamfordsbeans

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:51 AM

Does anybody know the approx number of teams functional in all the developing countries?
I,m sure I read that Italy had 50 teams.If so that is impressive.

#55 Bob8

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:37 AM

True Bob . Its difficult to break into established areas with a new sport now . American Football , for all its chutzpah marketing and money never got past first base in London. Games like soccer , golf and tennis were already International before the mass media. How do you grow rugby league Internationaly? Probably 60 years too late.

It is 60 years too late to grow rugby league in a stye that worked in the 1950's, that is true.

 

The trick is to look at sports that do not have huge financial or media backing and look how they do it and some are.

 

The answer is to find many niches.  There is potential for a club in many European cities to get four figure crowds.  However, we have to forget old certainties, such as a regular season and be event based.  In the modern world, people will not go to a new sport's games every week.  People will go every few weeks though, so we should have the games every few weeks.  Forget a regular league table.  We are an alternatve, extreme sport and can market ourselves accordingly.  This is exactly how the very few fast growing team sports that do not have huge backing manage it.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#56 westlondonfan

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:35 AM

True Bob . Its difficult to break into established areas with a new sport now . American Football , for all its chutzpah marketing and money never got past first base in London. Games like soccer , golf and tennis were already International before the mass media. How do you grow rugby league Internationaly? Probably 60 years too late.

Football, rugby union and cricket are all still expanding as international sports though aren't they?
What I find frustrating is the lack of effort being put into getting countries like France and PNG up to a standard where they can compete with the top three teams. If PNG were in the same position as they are in rugby league but in union or cricket I think they would be playing regular, top-level international matches in those sports and the game will be growing there.
It is interesting that in Sri Lanka Rugby union was the top sport of the elite until Sri Lanka received test status at cricket. Cricket is now the top sport in Sri Lanka.

#57 Kenny Bania

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:00 AM

What I find frustrating is the lack of effort being put into getting countries like France and PNG up to a standard where they can compete with the top three teams. If PNG were in the same position as they are in rugby league but in union or cricket I think they would be playing regular, top-level international matches in those sports and the game will be growing there.
 

This. A thousand times this.



#58 Kenny Bania

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:04 AM

It is 60 years too late to grow rugby league in a stye that worked in the 1950's, that is true.

 

The trick is to look at sports that do not have huge financial or media backing and look how they do it and some are.

 

The answer is to find many niches.  There is potential for a club in many European cities to get four figure crowds.  However, we have to forget old certainties, such as a regular season and be event based.  In the modern world, people will not go to a new sport's games every week.  People will go every few weeks though, so we should have the games every few weeks.  Forget a regular league table.  We are an alternatve, extreme sport and can market ourselves accordingly.  This is exactly how the very few fast growing team sports that do not have huge backing manage it.

 

Speaking personally, I find long gaps between games frustrating. I left Hemel v London absolutely bouncing after a narrow defeat to our local rivals but was annoyed to see we weren't at home again for another five weeks. (Accepting that this is a consequence of the Challenge Cup break and also there being an odd number of teams in our division)

 

Also - no league table? Can you expand on that notion? Sport without context - e.g. win this game and we don't go down, get a win and we're in to the semis etc - is then reduced to a series of exhibitions. I cannot possibly see how that can be the way forward.



#59 Futtocks

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:05 AM

Football, rugby union and cricket are all still expanding as international sports though aren't they?
What I find frustrating is the lack of effort being put into getting countries like France and PNG up to a standard where they can compete with the top three teams. If PNG were in the same position as they are in rugby league but in union or cricket I think they would be playing regular, top-level international matches in those sports and the game will be growing there.
It is interesting that in Sri Lanka Rugby union was the top sport of the elite until Sri Lanka received test status at cricket. Cricket is now the top sport in Sri Lanka.

Mind you the rise in popularity would also be helped by the fact that Sri Lanka are damn good at cricket and not particularly good at RU.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#60 audois

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:07 AM

I pick up on Bob8's interesting point. The other weekend I saw two matches in Perpignan and Carcasonne before an aggregate of nearly 17,000. Outside of the Dragons its a struggle. Last November in Avignon & Perpignan fantastic for WC too. Something offering at Toulouse last Saturday for Championship double header too. But here far too often nothing to salivate over across the wider region. The club game generally is treading water - they should have perservered with a four team regional comp based on Origin concepts interspersed between the Dragons & internationals. There has to be something of calibre each month or so to really pull in the punters.

Edited by audois, 30 April 2014 - 11:14 AM.

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