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#21 Just Browny

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:31 AM

I think the coverage is generally very good too, but share the frustration about Davies describing everything as simple. There are other adjectives.

I'm still disgusted that we're down to one TV match per round though, and think we lost that battle far too easily.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#22 gingerjon

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:42 AM

I think the coverage is generally very good too, but share the frustration about Davies describing everything as simple. There are other adjectives.

I'm still disgusted that we're down to one TV match per round though, and think we lost that battle far too easily.

 

I'm sure Sadler can clarify all the relevant bits of the TV deals we currently have but isn't part of the issue that Sky could show a game but choose not to?


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#23 Futtocks

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:26 AM

Eorl's getting plenty of experience (on the Superleague Show, as well as televised CC matches), and will improve as a broadcaster, just as John Kear or Brian Noble did in the past. And, as has been already said, he comes across as a likeable character.

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#24 alan30058

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 10:35 AM

great... another thread of whinging about a commentator.............. when it isnt Stevo it's Phil Clarke; when it isn't Ray French it is Jonathan Davies. Tedious in the extreme.

But very true.

Davies goes through the motions of commentating just for the pay cheque



#25 Futtocks

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 11:14 AM



But very true.

Davies goes through the motions of commentating just for the pay cheque

I like Jiffy, but the bits of co-commentary he does mainly add up to:

  • "Simp-el, simpel try"

     

     

  • "Very poo-er defending"

     

     

  • "Why didn't they kick the 2 points?"

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#26 Mycoe For Knighthood

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 11:24 AM

I quite like Crabtree, both on radio and tv, he is likeable and comes across as knowledgable but he needs to do what Terry O'Connor and Barrie Mac have done and clean up his diction. Wiv Eorl, there's too much fought and finking -  and this is pretty basic stuff for someone who wants to make a go of being on tv.


I couldnt disagree more, I feel crabtree is slipping into the mould of phil clarke, mcdermott, oconnor, john wilkin etc of trying to talk with a false persona instead of being natural...

if you have a northern accent be proud of it... dont change the way you talk because its how "society" expects it!!

#27 Gerri Monside

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 11:37 AM

Not been mentioned on here yet, but I thought Ben Thaler's explanation of the VR decisions came across very well.  Gave a clear explanation of what he was looking for and how he arrived at the decision.  Far better than the Sky effort...... "and the decision is.....try"....


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#28 Futtocks

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 11:58 AM

I couldnt disagree more, I feel crabtree is slipping into the mould of phil clarke, mcdermott, oconnor, john wilkin etc of trying to talk with a false persona instead of being natural...

if you have a northern accent be proud of it... dont change the way you talk because its how "society" expects it!!

It isn't about his accent, it's about feeling comfortable enough to express yourself with umming and ahhing or falling back on cliches, which are just nervous fillers for inexperienced broadcasters. 

 

It is getting less common these days, but we've all seen plenty of RL players who wouldn't think twice about tackling a player twice their size, but looked terrified and were virtually monosyllabic when faced by the camera.

 

Eorl's relaxing more when on the spot these days. Even his posture is more laid-back.


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#29 thirteenthman

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:47 PM

Not been mentioned on here yet, but I thought Ben Thaler's explanation of the VR decisions came across very well.  Gave a clear explanation of what he was looking for and how he arrived at the decision.  Far better than the Sky effort...... "and the decision is.....try"....

 

Agreed. Ian Smith also does that role well. I really don't see what we gain from seeing the backs of the video refs stood in front of a screen as per Sky's coverage. And I think there was a decision the other week where Steve Ganson said something like it was a try because 'he got the ball down'. That really adds something. Of course Sky won't do the VR decisions like the BBC because they never thought of it first. 



#30 Griff9of13

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:22 PM

Agreed. Ian Smith also does that role well. I really don't see what we gain from seeing the backs of the video refs stood in front of a screen as per Sky's coverage. And I think there was a decision the other week where Steve Ganson said something like it was a try because 'he got the ball down'. That really adds something. Of course Sky won't do the VR decisions like the BBC because they never thought of it first.


Didn't Sky have a go at miking the VR once but had to drop it because someone in the OB truck was unable to control their potty mouth and the VRs mike was picking it up! :unsure:
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#31 jus de couchon

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 07:44 PM

I think R.L needs to get over itself when it comes to regional accents. No one gives a F anymore. Move on. Saying that though Stevo is a Dinosaur.



#32 Padge

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 08:23 PM

I think R.L needs to get over itself when it comes to regional accents. No one gives a F anymore. Move on. Saying that though Stevo is a Dinosaur.

 

its not about accents, its about clarity and fluidity.

 

A mumbled sentence strung together withe erms and yer knows is awful, whoever delivers it.

 

Commentators, presenters and pundits need to be clear and understandable, the accent isn't the issue. We have too many put in fron of cameras who can't string two words together without two erms and at least one you know.


Edited by Padge, 27 April 2014 - 08:24 PM.


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#33 Bulliac

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:06 PM

I couldnt disagree more, I feel crabtree is slipping into the mould of phil clarke, mcdermott, oconnor, john wilkin etc of trying to talk with a false persona instead of being natural...

if you have a northern accent be proud of it... dont change the way you talk because its how "society" expects it!!

There's nothing wrong with the accent; it's the diction. The missuse 'V's and 'F's instead of 'TH occurs all over the country, so is far from regional. What it is, is just plain slovenly and it is easy enough to remedy. There is nothing wrong with speaking properly, it's just the same as washing your face and combing your hair.

 

If you couldn't add up you wouldn't expect a job in finance, and likewise, if you can't speak reasonably you shouldn't expect a job describing things on TV - remember this is national tv not the local news.


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#34 zorquif

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:08 PM

There are a ton of people who can't speak properly on tv.



#35 latchford albion

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:51 PM

Jason Robinson came across as quietly articulate during the Cup draw - well spoken without losing his accent.  I thought the draw was nicely presented; I'm so glad they don't do it on the Richard Bacon show now.



#36 stewpot01

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:58 PM

It's Hunter-Paul I'm not a fan of. Him walking around the warm up pointing at players and staying the obvious about them inbetween 'uh, um'

Could be better utilised.

Yes, about 100,000 miles away to be precise. Cannot stand the arrogant man. So full of himself it comes out of his ears.


Edited by stewpot01, 28 April 2014 - 05:59 PM.


#37 C H Calthrop

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 10:54 AM

I do think mark Chapman is a brilliant rugby league presenter, liked Brian noble, eorl Crabtree, Tanya Arnold and Robbie hunter Paul. Why they persist with 'its simple' Jonathan Davies I don't know!!! If they got rid of him and had skys slicker and better edited coverage they would be out of this world! 7 out of 10...

Chapman is a BBC sports presenter who fronts RL not a RL presenter. He does have genuine affection and taste for the game but he'd be dragged off to front the golf and we'd be left with a make do and mend host at a moments notice if it suited.

Eorl Crabtree is still finding his feet and so far is doing a solid job.

Tanya Arnold comes across as a BBC NW regional reporter who has the same technique in reporting on a local bypass as she has in covering RL. Professional but just not engaging, RL is supposed to be entertainment after all.

Brian Noble is too boring.

JD regardless of his liking for and considerable pedigree in playing RL he is a face of current BBC RU. He even has his own RU chat show on S4C. Those more representative affiliations make him someone who is not first choice for selling the game nationally on the 5 or 6 occasions the BBC take to the RL field. If he wasn't employed to do the Union would he be doing the League, I doubt it. 

RHP frankly fronts the part of the broadcast which assumes RL was born yesterday. You'd struggle to find any equivalent to his role in other BBC football broadcasts. 

Andrew Henderson was a co commentator on R5 Salford v Hull a few weeks ago. Now he was excellent and as we saw with Vossy in the WC commentators can make the broadcast. Henderson certainly made that one.

How many of the crop can really be said to sell RL when they present it and is the lack of that approach good enough?

The reduced BBC coverage of the CC should speak volumes about their ambition and commitment to the sport. RL will absolutely be kept in its place by the BBC. which I hope is seen as a negative to those who extol the virtues of some of their approach. 



#38 iffleyox

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 11:15 AM

 

JD regardless of his liking for and considerable pedigree in playing RL he is a face of current BBC RU. He even has his own RU chat show on S4C. Those more representative affiliations make him someone who is not first choice for selling the game nationally on the 5 or 6 occasions the BBC take to the RL field. If he wasn't employed to do the Union would he be doing the League, I doubt it. 

 

 

I think that's completely the wrong way round to be honest. If JD wasn't doing Union I still think he'd be doing League, but for the same reasons that he does do League - he doesn't fit the stereotype. OK, we all know the stereotype is just that, a stereotype, but the game doesn't have to play up to it.

 

Given League wants to grow, and the massive floating TV audience for the 6N, which doesn't as we know translate into union club gates, having JD doing both is absolute gold dust for the RFL. Why, because floating punters who haven't got a scooby what League even is (but whose knowledge of "rugby" is limited to the odd 6N match once or twice a year) have got a recognisable face and voice to hang on to when they stick the BBC on on a random saturday and see a league game. Most of them probably don't know that he played both codes, but they might just think, "well, if he's working on it, then it can't be that bad." Same with Brian Moore on the radio. Like it or not there needs to be a way in for people who haven't got the faintest idea who the other commentators are - like when Channel 4 took over the cricket (briefly), but still had Boycott. At least people know who he is.

 

Some of those people are going to get sucked in, then they'll start looking for it in the schedules, then they'll start looking for matches to go to, (and if they've got an expansion club near them so much the better).

 

But don't underestimate the value of turning on the television to see a sport you don't understand, between two teams whose kits you don't recognise (hell, you might not even be able to tell who they are from the abbreviations unless you know any RL towns off the top of your head), but seeing a good crowd/atmosphere in the ground and a voice you know and trust from another context doing the commentary.

 

Quite apart from anything else, it worked for me a few years ago.



#39 C H Calthrop

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:42 PM

I think that's completely the wrong way round to be honest. If JD wasn't doing Union I still think he'd be doing League, but for the same reasons that he does do League - he doesn't fit the stereotype. OK, we all know the stereotype is just that, a stereotype, but the game doesn't have to play up to it.

 

Given League wants to grow, and the massive floating TV audience for the 6N, which doesn't as we know translate into union club gates, having JD doing both is absolute gold dust for the RFL. Why, because floating punters who haven't got a scooby what League even is (but whose knowledge of "rugby" is limited to the odd 6N match once or twice a year) have got a recognisable face and voice to hang on to when they stick the BBC on on a random saturday and see a league game. Most of them probably don't know that he played both codes, but they might just think, "well, if he's working on it, then it can't be that bad." Same with Brian Moore on the radio. Like it or not there needs to be a way in for people who haven't got the faintest idea who the other commentators are - like when Channel 4 took over the cricket (briefly), but still had Boycott. At least people know who he is.

 

Some of those people are going to get sucked in, then they'll start looking for it in the schedules, then they'll start looking for matches to go to, (and if they've got an expansion club near them so much the better).

 

But don't underestimate the value of turning on the television to see a sport you don't understand, between two teams whose kits you don't recognise (hell, you might not even be able to tell who they are from the abbreviations unless you know any RL towns off the top of your head), but seeing a good crowd/atmosphere in the ground and a voice you know and trust from another context doing the commentary.

 

Quite apart from anything else, it worked for me a few years ago.

Well if JD was only doing RL I wouldn't feel the same about it. He was a top player and comes up with some good insights, he is a worthy character. But his main role is representing the other lot and it smacks too much of 2 for the price of 1 economizing on RL. 

 

i don't think there is any evidence to suppose JD's extra value for a floating audience. That floating audience wants to see an International shirt do anything. hence the interest in people sliding rocks across ice during the winter Olympics. I've watched his chat show, he doesn't get any RL in.....except once where he questioned his audience on who said the well known" RL is a simple game" quote, the one penned by Laurie Daley. Only JD laughed.

Lets remember The CC used to have a bigger audience than the other lot, mid 90's. About the time they curtailed coverage.

What would get the audience in is some mainstream TV that advertised the RL product they were showing. BBC obviously fails miserably on that front. As a media partner they has a poor history of promoting the game they are the ones defining it as an "in the North" programme after all.

 

 

Don't underestimate the power of familiarity, salesmanship and constant repetition in gathering folk round the tv that it what gathers a floating audience. The beeb won't do this for RL.



#40 redjonn

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:56 PM

Chapman is a BBC sports presenter who fronts RL not a RL presenter. He does have genuine affection and taste for the game but he'd be dragged off to front the golf and we'd be left with a make do and mend host at a moments notice if it suited.

Eorl Crabtree is still finding his feet and so far is doing a solid job.

Tanya Arnold comes across as a BBC NW regional reporter who has the same technique in reporting on a local bypass as she has in covering RL. Professional but just not engaging, RL is supposed to be entertainment after all.

Brian Noble is too boring.

JD regardless of his liking for and considerable pedigree in playing RL he is a face of current BBC RU. He even has his own RU chat show on S4C. Those more representative affiliations make him someone who is not first choice for selling the game nationally on the 5 or 6 occasions the BBC take to the RL field. If he wasn't employed to do the Union would he be doing the League, I doubt it. 

RHP frankly fronts the part of the broadcast which assumes RL was born yesterday. You'd struggle to find any equivalent to his role in other BBC football broadcasts. 

Andrew Henderson was a co commentator on R5 Salford v Hull a few weeks ago. Now he was excellent and as we saw with Vossy in the WC commentators can make the broadcast. Henderson certainly made that one.

How many of the crop can really be said to sell RL when they present it and is the lack of that approach good enough?

The reduced BBC coverage of the CC should speak volumes about their ambition and commitment to the sport. RL will absolutely be kept in its place by the BBC. which I hope is seen as a negative to those who extol the virtues of some of their approach. 

 

How on earth can we (as in collective RL fans or administrators) complain about reduced coverage of CC when we don't show up and many question the value of the CC nowadays and talk about changing format because of lack of interest.

 

It would seem to me that the BBC reflects the reduced  interest from fans.  So I would turn your comments around and say "the reduced attendance at CC speaks volumes about fans interest/commitment, etc etc.....

 

The BBC would increase coverage if they saw more interest.






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