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Just a very large "Thank You"


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#41 homeandawayer

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:45 AM

The best i can see or us is being a Batley type club finishing around 5th or 6th with gates of around 1000, and i'd be happy with that, maybe others wouldn't.  The main reason we had 451 is because people feel let down for whatever reason by the directors not delivering signings needed to make that achievable. If we do that and keep signing good amateurs like we have in the past 3 years that's where we should be.

 

There's no need to chuck in the towel yet.



#42 wonky

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:52 AM

But we aren't going to be finishing 5th or 6th. At the rate were going well be extremely lucky to finish 5th from bottom. Then what? If we get them numbers for Sheffield what's it going to be like against Gateshead, skolars and Hemel?
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#43 town4me

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:04 AM

The best i can see or us is being a Batley type club finishing around 5th or 6th with gates of around 1000, and i'd be happy with that, maybe others wouldn't. The main reason we had 451 is because people feel let down for whatever reason by the directors not delivering signings needed to make that achievable. If we do that and keep signing good amateurs like we have in the past 3 years that's where we should be.

There's no need to chuck in the towel yet.

don't think anyone is chucking in the towel yet but we have to be a bit realistic. If we go down so will the standard of rugby and crowds will drop again. We won't have any traveller's and yeah in an ideal we would have 17 good cumbrians but remember the top amatuers are rumoured to be wanting daft money to sign on. Will fans want to give a sunny afternoon up to stand with 300 others watching Gloucester all golds or hemel Hempstead? I know fans who are very frustrated at the moment and don't intend to be part of that 300 or so fans next season if it happens

#44 GeordieTownie

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:10 AM

The best i can see or us is being a Batley type club finishing around 5th or 6th with gates of around 1000, and i'd be happy with that, maybe others wouldn't. The main reason we had 451 is because people feel let down for whatever reason by the directors not delivering signings needed to make that achievable. If we do that and keep signing good amateurs like we have in the past 3 years that's where we should be.

There's no need to chuck in the towel yet.

Rubbish

The main reasons for that crowd were the fact we'd thrown away a big lead the home game before, the fact that Sheffield never bring any supporters and the fact that Liverpool v Man City was on TV.

Don't try and twist it into a not delivering on signings debate.

Edited by GeordieTownie, 30 April 2014 - 10:11 AM.


#45 OttO

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:22 AM

 remember the top amatuers are rumoured to be wanting daft money to sign on.

 

A rumour propagated by the deluded ones down the road as the reason for a lot of locals not wanting to sign for them


"i hate workington town fans with a passion they are the biggest cry babies in rl and boy do they get jealous easy"- Choccy 2012

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#46 homeandawayer

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:25 AM

This has developed into a merger debate and the reasons you've given plus mine ,whether you agree with it or not , back up my argument that we don't have to cosy up to them down the road just cos things aren't going our way.

 

If you're more interested in quality live rugby or if it's not possible to be a top 6 team on gates of 1000 then we'd want to go down that road ,but i know diehards who aren't getting off the sofa to go to DP at the moment and that's the reason they give.



#47 town4me

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:25 AM

The best i can see or us is being a Batley type club finishing around 5th or 6th with gates of around 1000, and i'd be happy with that, maybe others wouldn't. The main reason we had 451 is because people feel let down for whatever reason by the directors not delivering signings needed to make that achievable. If we do that and keep signing good amateurs like we have in the past 3 years that's where we should be.

There's no need to chuck in the towel yet.

with regards to signing more local amateurs there is a very similar similar thread to this on havens forum and they are talking of going back to basics with local amateurs too. Just how many of these top local players is there to go around.

Edited by town4me, 30 April 2014 - 10:27 AM.


#48 town4me

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:32 AM

This has developed into a merger debate and the reasons you've given plus mine ,whether you agree with it or not , back up my argument that we don't have to cosy up to them down the road just cos things aren't going our way.

If you're more interested in quality live rugby or if it's not possible to be a top 6 team on gates of 1000 then we'd want to go down that road ,but i know diehards who aren't getting off the sofa to go to DP at the moment and that's the reason they give.

I don't think the review is solely about a merger. the review might say its simply not possible for a merger or it finds that getting some investment into the county to improve the grounds and strengthen the cumbria academy may be an option with ideas to encourage better links with the amateur game and stop the talented youngsters heading of for SL academies.

Edited by town4me, 30 April 2014 - 10:34 AM.


#49 Oneday

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:43 AM

Even the derby matches nowadays don't attract much interest. If Scotland can attract such crowds imagine what a Cumbrian SL team could do. Town isn't and never has been full of just Workington players so such allegiance to Town or Haven is just an old habit really which is gradually losing relavance as it ain't go to lead anywhere ever. Time to move on.



#50 The Voodooguru

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:22 AM

If we had a 12 strong BOD who each had a bit of time to put in  ( maybe money would help too) and a marketing expert to guide them as Peter Deakin did for Warrington and turned them into a sustainable top team,  then there is no reason why we couldn't be a top Championship side. But the truth is that despite repeated requests people are not prepared to step up to be a director, and we have no expert in marketing. So we are where we are, and it doesn't look likely to change in the near future.


The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but thats the way to bet!

#51 GeordieTownie

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:39 AM

I bet we'd have a 12 strong BOD if we had an SL club.

#52 Keith T

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 12:32 PM

I think this is all about whatever you are willing to accept. I couldn't accept that the best rugby league that was going to be available to watch was a team that couldn't rise any higher than 5th or 6th in the Championship just because we were too stubborn to admit that trying to keep 2 part-time professional clubs going in our small area was working against each other.

Two small clubs, and no matter how big we believe we are, that is what we are and if we drop in to Championship 1 we will be classed as amongst the smallest of RL clubs. Two small clubs each fighting to survive and fighting for the same pots of local sponsorship money and the same small pool of local players. Gates falling year on year and yet we expect the clubs to be signing top players on top money to get us in to the top 9 of the Championship.

I have followed Town since I was 8 years old and my parents were both officials of the then Town Supporters club so I have quite a bit of history in the club but if rugby league is to survive in the area for my childrens grand-children to enjoy then there has to be a coming together with our neighbours (not them lot down the road). It's as simple as that.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#53 shaun mc

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 12:33 PM

I've just done a Survey Monkey survey from the RFL about Rugby League in general but also had specific questions about what I like and don't at live games I go to and why I go to watch games.
This type of thing could be done by Town but will require email addresses, then someone who has time to do it and then analyse the results, etc, etc.

#54 GeordieTownie

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 01:13 PM

I would imagine a similar thing would be done in the review at some point if it's done properly

#55 Keith T

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:45 PM

I would imagine a similar thing would be done in the review at some point if it's done properly


Hopefully to a wider selection of people than just RL forums. We need to know from people who have walked away from the game what would bring them back and how they see that happening. We get bogged down on these forums thinking we are the only people who matter in this debate but we need to know from these other people plus amateur clubs, schoolkids, general public, then we might just see what most people using logic and common sense see, not our bigoted views depending on which camp you happen to be in.

Edited by Keith T, 30 April 2014 - 02:46 PM.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#56 Billy Bob

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:56 PM


The RLFC may wish for the two clubs to merge, but they will not guarantee S/L and they will not put up any money in order to develop a S/L team in the area.
S/L players are now demanding £60k to £150k a season and top class overseas players are on more, if the two clubs were to merge, where is the money going to come from ? Haven receive £45k a year from Nuclear Management Partnership, which is more than either team's annual gate income, all the RLFC is interested in is keeping a professional side in Cumbria and in my opinion they see a merger of two clubs a solution for the survival of one club for this area.
S/L is a pipe dream, who in this area has millions to put into a venture that would not see a break even return, loosing money year after year, the world cup games were a one off, complimentary tickets, kids free, more women attending the games due to accompanying kids due to the entertainment put on in the Town prior to the games, there were more none R/L supporters their than genuine fans, I would like to see a S/L team up here but experience shows that people say they would support S/L team, and when they are getting poor results your down to the diehards about 800 from both clubs, sorry don't think it will happen.

#57 town4me

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 03:05 PM

The RLFC may wish for the two clubs to merge, but they will not guarantee S/L and they will not put up any money in order to develop a S/L team in the area.
S/L players are now demanding £60k to £150k a season and top class overseas players are on more, if the two clubs were to merge, where is the money going to come from ? Haven receive £45k a year from Nuclear Management Partnership, which is more than either team's annual gate income, all the RLFC is interested in is keeping a professional side in Cumbria and in my opinion they see a merger of two clubs a solution for the survival of one club for this area.
S/L is a pipe dream, who in this area has millions to put into a venture that would not see a break even return, loosing money year after year, the world cup games were a one off, complimentary tickets, kids free, more women attending the games due to accompanying kids due to the entertainment put on in the Town prior to the games, there were more none R/L supporters their than genuine fans, I would like to see a S/L team up here but experience shows that people say they would support S/L team, and when they are getting poor results your down to the diehards about 800 from both clubs, sorry don't think it will happen.

where did you get your info from to back up what you say in your opening paragraph was it from someone at the RFL?Everyones entitled to add their opinion and I am sure there will be obstacles to cross.

Edited by town4me, 30 April 2014 - 03:06 PM.


#58 Keith T

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 03:28 PM

Billy Bob, I think you are way out with your assumption that there was more non-RL supporters than genuine fans at the World Cup games. If you mean by genuine supporters the sum total of our two clubs then you would be correct but there were many people from amateur clubs and many ex-fans from both clubs.

As for where would the money come from, well you have quoted £45k that Haven get as if that was the only sponsorship money in the area. Add together what both clubs get and that would be for one club not two, plus I'm sure increased gates and the higher league we played in the more chance of better and bigger sponsors coming on board. That is what has happened at many SL clubs who have increased their turnover quite considerably. Two lotteries become one for one club and so on.

I get a bit tired of these "what if's" as if that was what was going to happen. "What if" we had a very successful SL team up here with everything in place underneath - Under 20's team, junior development working in conjunction with the Lillyhall Academy, top quality sponsorship, increased gates, excellent marketing, our own new stadium, attachments to the Lakes College, - but of course that could never happen, could it, because we are always doomed to fail.

I forgot to say as well from 2015 SL clubs are to receive £1.8 million per season for a salary cap of £1.6 million per season that's why they can pay big wages!!

Edited by Keith T, 30 April 2014 - 03:33 PM.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#59 GeordieTownie

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 03:35 PM

And your thinking that the clubs gate receipts are less than £45k you'll be a bit away there. Average gate of 600 plus derbies plus cup games would give you far more than £45k at an average of £10 per head would give you nearer £90k

#60 shaun mc

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 04:30 PM

Billy Bob -

So you can only go to a Rugby League game if you are a fully paid up member of the RL fans society?
Total rubbish
RL should welcome every single person to its games regardless of whether its a total one-off or whether they can prove they were at the 1952 cup final or not.

That one visit is an opportunity to impress them with the game, the atmosphere and hospitality
Who knows, they may be back and they may have lots of friends and colleagues who they can talk to about the exeprience they had

If the World Cup was only about true supporters then we'd have had gates of about 1,500 which would ensure that we'd never get a game again
I.e
Town and Haven average gates
Less Havens 'fans' who were intent on not attending
Add 'true' RL fans from other clubs and parts of the UK (bringing money into the economy)

If it were true that the majority of those that attended were non-traditional RL fans, then that is to be celebrated rather than ridiculed




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