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Gerry Adams arrested


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#1 Futtocks

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:24 PM

Apologies to JohnM for the Grauniad link because it always sets him off ;) but Gerry Adams held over 1972 Jean McConville killing.


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#2 johnmatrix

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:05 PM

about time



#3 Wolford6

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:56 AM

On a dispassionate note, Adams has been implicated in the murder after the USA, at the request of the British government,  over-rode a confidentiality contract relating to a historical Irish Troubles archive prepared by an American university.

 

This is despite, for many years, the USA refusing to extradite IRA terrorists back to Britain.

If that was a principle then, then why isn't it now. Probably because they've done a trade-off over something else.

 

The British security services must have  known the contents of these files for many years, but the government effectively ignored them and assimilated  Adams and McGuinness into the political establishment. Why did the British government suddenly want these files released?

 

Just goes to show that, as always, you can't trust the Yanks or the British Government.


Edited by Wolford6, 01 May 2014 - 08:00 AM.

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#4 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:33 AM

There was a very sad interview on the Radio 4 Today programme this morning with one of Jean McConville's sons who was aged 11 at the time of her abduction, which he and his siblings witnessed.

 

He knows the identity of the men who took his mother away, but has never told anyone, for fear of reprisals against his family. Even now he won't tell the police who they were, despite the fact that he sees some of the kidnappers and presumably murderers in the street.

 

The grip that the IRA had over the Catholic community in Northern Ireland was total, and it certainly hasn't gone away.



#5 gingerjon

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:00 AM

On a dispassionate note, Adams has been implicated in the murder after the USA, at the request of the British government,  over-rode a confidentiality contract relating to a historical Irish Troubles archive prepared by an American university.

 

The tapes that implicated IRA member Gerry Adams as a member of the IRA were released posthumously - in line with the confidentiality agreement.  The PSNI have then used the US courts to obtain the original, complete tapes.


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#6 ckn

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 01:24 PM

As a reminder: Regardless of your personal feelings about Adams, he is still innocent until proven guilty.  If you absolutely and beyond any doubt "know" that he is guilty of a crime then I encourage you to go to the police with your evidence.  Feel free to discuss Adams but keep those two previous sentences in mind.


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#7 Methven Hornet

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 02:50 PM

On a dispassionate note, Adams has been implicated in the murder after the USA, at the request of the British government,  over-rode a confidentiality contract relating to a historical Irish Troubles archive prepared by an American university.
 
This is despite, for many years, the USA refusing to extradite IRA terrorists back to Britain.
If that was a principle then, then why isn't it now. Probably because they've done a trade-off over something else.
 
The British security services must have  known the contents of these files for many years, but the government effectively ignored them and assimilated  Adams and McGuinness into the political establishment. Why did the British government suddenly want these files released?
 
Just goes to show that, as always, you can't trust the Yanks or the British Government.


What has changed since the days when extradition requests were often rejected is that there has been an agreed political solution, and one that all the parties involved, including the Americans, have signed up to. Gone are the days when the UK state could be held up to be the villain of the peace, and its extradition requests viewed as political. This is now just a regular police matter, an investigation being carried out by a police service that isn't seen as an armed wing of the British state (certainly not by the authorities in the US), and certainly not an attempt to use the justice system to strengthen Britain's control in Northern Ireland.

Interestingly, looking at the issue in general, there have been suggestions in the past that what Northern Ireland needs is the sort of truth and reconciliation process that was so successful in South Africa. Everybody involved would get to tell their story in all its detail, without fear of prosecution, helping to resolve matters like this and allow everybody to move on. What is different here, however, is that we have a European human rights culture to contend with. A victim's right to justice is seen to be so important that it can't be pushed aside by the politics of it all. It is going to make for an interesting, if uncomfortable, phase of the peace process.
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#8 WearyRhino

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:47 PM

I really hope that this, which seems to me to be suspiciously timed, doesn't come back to haunt HMG, destroy the peace process, and return NI to the nightmares of the past. Make no mistake, there are men with guns on both sides of the cultural divide who are waiting for an opportunity to restart the conflict.

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#9 Trojan

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:16 AM

There was a very sad interview on the Radio 4 Today programme this morning with one of Jean McConville's sons who was aged 11 at the time of her abduction, which he and his siblings witnessed.

 

He knows the identity of the men who took his mother away, but has never told anyone, for fear of reprisals against his family. Even now he won't tell the police who they were, despite the fact that he sees some of the kidnappers and presumably murderers in the street.

 

The grip that the IRA had over the Catholic community in Northern Ireland was total, and it certainly hasn't gone away.

There's no doubt that the IRA had a grip over the Catholic community in Northern Ireland. This is because the Catholics didn't trust the police, because the police were basically in the pocket of the Protestant ascendancy. It's now being alleged that the remnants of this tendency in the Police Service of Northern Ireland is behind this arrest.

It has to be said that Catholics in England don't feel the same antipathy to the police as their co-religionists in NI, and that the alleged sectarian bias is the reason.


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#10 gingerjon

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:40 AM

I really hope that this, which seems to me to be suspiciously timed, doesn't come back to haunt HMG, destroy the peace process, and return NI to the nightmares of the past. Make no mistake, there are men with guns on both sides of the cultural divide who are waiting for an opportunity to restart the conflict.

 

I don't see how it's suspiciously timed.  It won't exactly harm Sinn Fein's vote that Adams is seen to be the victim of a stitch up, just like it won't exactly harm the DUP's that memories of the IRA are reawakened.

 

I get that there could be 'dark forces' at work.  Just not in that way.


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#11 Northern Sol

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:21 AM

There's no doubt that the IRA had a grip over the Catholic community in Northern Ireland. This is because the Catholics didn't trust the police, because the police were basically in the pocket of the Protestant ascendancy. It's now being alleged that the remnants of this tendency in the Police Service of Northern Ireland is behind this arrest.

It has to be said that Catholics in England don't feel the same antipathy to the police as their co-religionists in NI, and that the alleged sectarian bias is the reason.

Perhaps the RUC wouldn't have had such a strong institutional bias if the IRA hadn't been so fond of killing them and hadn't gone out of their way to target Catholic policemen.


Edited by Northern Sol, 02 May 2014 - 08:22 AM.


#12 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:17 AM

I don't see how it's suspiciously timed.  It won't exactly harm Sinn Fein's vote that Adams is seen to be the victim of a stitch up, just like it won't exactly harm the DUP's that memories of the IRA are reawakened.

 

I get that there could be 'dark forces' at work.  Just not in that way.

Using an emotive term like "stitch up" is unwise in this case.

 

The PSNI has a duty to investigate a heinous crime, albeit one that was committed more than 40 years ago.

 

The 1998 agreement did not give an amnesty to people who were guilty of murder.

 

They clearly believe that Adams has questions to answer, but they have not charged him. Who knows whether they will?

 

If ageing celebrities can be charged with sexual assault from 40 years ago, without people claiming that they have been "stitched up", I'm sure that solving a horrific murder should be high on the list of the PSNI's priorities.

 

Part of any 'normal' society is the knowledge that anyone, regardless of position, can be called to account.



#13 gingerjon

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:31 AM

Using an emotive term like "stitch up" is unwise in this case.

 

But it's the term that will play with Sinn Fein's support.

 

Which was the point I was making.


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#14 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:35 AM

But it's the term that will play with Sinn Fein's support.

 

Which was the point I was making.

I'm not sure about that.

 

Everyone in Ireland recognises the particularly horrific nature of the murder of Jean McConville. I'm not sure that Sinn Fein supporters, or anyone else, will come out onto the streets or pick up guns to support the perpetrators, whoever they are.



#15 Trojan

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:02 PM

Perhaps the RUC wouldn't have had such a strong institutional bias if the IRA hadn't been so fond of killing them and hadn't gone out of their way to target Catholic policemen.

I'm old enough to remember the "B" Specials, part time NI coppers who were basically the Orange Order in Police Uniforms given carte blanche to beat up as many Catholics as they saw fit.  The Ulster Constabulary was riddled with sectarian hate.

I recall the nutter Peter Hitchens complaining about the change of name, to be pedantic the six counties of Northern Ireland are in Ulster, but there are three more, Cavan, Monaghan, and Donegal which are in the Republic.


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#16 Griff9of13

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 05:29 PM

Released without charge.

http://www.theguardi...arge?CMP=twt_fd
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#17 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:36 AM

Released without charge.

http://www.theguardi...arge?CMP=twt_fd

The fact that Gerry Adams can be arrested and questioned about the murder of Jean McConville is a very positive development for Northern Ireland. It means that former terrorist leaders are no longer untouchable, and suggests that normality is returning to the province.

 

The fact that he has been released without being charged is also very positive, given the rumours linking him with this murder for the last 40 years.

 

Whatever we may think of Adams, he has played a leading role in returning Northern Ireland to a more normal form of politics, and he seems to want to continue doing that.



#18 Northern Sol

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:03 AM

The fact that Gerry Adams can be arrested and questioned about the murder of Jean McConville is a very positive development for Northern Ireland. It means that former terrorist leaders are no longer untouchable, and suggests that normality is returning to the province.

 

The fact that he has been released without being charged is also very positive, given the rumours linking him with this murder for the last 40 years.

 

Whatever we may think of Adams, he has played a leading role in returning Northern Ireland to a more normal form of politics, and he seems to want to continue doing that.

With CKN's warning in mind and speaking hypothetically not commenting on Adam's guilt or innocence.

 

It is hardly unknown for a celebrity or politician to be arrested for an offence and then charges be dropped because of string pulling only for it to emerge years later that they were guilty all along. Often we cannot draw any conclusions about the way that police investigations are carried out because we do not know enough information.


Edited by Northern Sol, 07 May 2014 - 11:04 AM.


#19 gingerjon

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:14 AM

The fact that Gerry Adams can be arrested and questioned about the murder of Jean McConville is a very positive development for Northern Ireland. It means that former terrorist leaders are no longer untouchable, and suggests that normality is returning to the province.

 

The fact that he has been released without being charged is also very positive, given the rumours linking him with this murder for the last 40 years.

 

Whatever we may think of Adams, he has played a leading role in returning Northern Ireland to a more normal form of politics, and he seems to want to continue doing that.

 

You missed the bit where Sinn Fein mobilised people on the streets and were preparing to withdraw support from the PSNI.


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#20 Tiny Tim

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:47 AM

You missed the bit where Sinn Fein mobilised people on the streets and were preparing to withdraw support from the PSNI.

 

Less positive, more threatening.






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