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Astra Zenica merger. It's deja vu all over again!


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#1 JohnM

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:37 PM

The company said it would cut 6,000 jobs worldwide over the next three years, and that it would achieve cost savings of $1.1bn. Up to 1,000 jobs could go in Britain. 

 

I wonder how Sweden felt, and Tony Blair felt back in 1998?  Let me guess...it wasn't the same, was it. 

 

http://news.bbc.co.u...ness/231213.stm

 

http://www.astrazene...rtners-in-brief



#2 Trojan

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:54 PM

In case you hadn't noticed Tony Blair hasn't been Prime Minister for 7 years.  In 2009 Kraft took over Cadbury with assurances similar to Pfizer's. They weren't worth the paper they were written on. Surely your wonderful Tory government should learn from the previous government's mistake.  But no they're going to go right ahead with it. (whilst making all the right noises of course)  Perhaps those advising this course are the same advisers who set up the Royal Mail deal.  Or perhaps they're big contributors to Tory party funds. You can never tell with this vile government.


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#3 stimpo-and-kat

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:16 PM

Im sceptical about how much influence and right the government should have in a decision for the directors and shareholders of AZ

#4 Tiny Tim

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 10:25 PM

Big pharma has been pulling out of the UK for the last few years, Novartis, Pfizer, Lilly and so on with 1000s of jobs going.

 

Pfizer has massively changed it's way of working with a lot more out sourcing of work cutting back hugely on in-house staff. Other companies are following suit. They are also relocating operations to lower cost countries such as China and various South American countries.

 

Lots of bleating from politicians is not going to change this and at the end of the day I am curious to know how much they can do to stop a Pfizer AZ merger if the shareholders want it


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#5 JohnM

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:00 PM

In case you hadn't noticed Tony Blair hasn't been Prime Minister for 7 years. In 2009 Kraft took over Cadbury with assurances similar to Pfizer's. They weren't worth the paper they were written on. Surely your wonderful Tory government should learn from the previous government's mistake. But no they're going to go right ahead with it. (whilst making all the right noises of course) Perhaps those advising this course are the same advisers who set up the Royal Mail deal. Or perhaps they're big contributors to Tory party funds. You can never tell with this vile government.


so what is different now compared with when your rich mate Blair oversawthe Zeneca take over of Astra ? Perhaps he was too busy begging off Bernie Ecclestone? Still, the towering intellect that is Miliband will soon stop the new takeover once he has his orders from Transport House. Vile? Your lot are WAY ahead, comrade.

#6 Trojan

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:19 AM

so what is different now compared with when your rich mate Blair oversawthe Zeneca take over of Astra ? Perhaps he was too busy begging off Bernie Ecclestone? Still, the towering intellect that is Miliband will soon stop the new takeover once he has his orders from Transport House. Vile? Your lot are WAY ahead, comrade.

My lot introduced the NHS, my lot aspire to full employment, my lot wouldn't have sold Royal Mail off to their mates for a song, my lot didn't introduce the poll tax or the bedroom tax, my lot haven't introduced targets at Job Centres where the employees have to knock back so many claimants per week, I could go on.  Vile is a mild expletive for this government John.


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#7 Griff9of13

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:57 AM

John. You always remind me of those bitter fans whose hatred of their rivals far outweighs their support for their own club. A bit like the Everton fans who supposedly cheered their teams loss against Man City last week because it would help deny Liverpool the league title. 


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#8 ckn

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:43 AM

My lot introduced the NHS, my lot aspire to full employment, my lot wouldn't have sold Royal Mail off to their mates for a song, my lot didn't introduce the poll tax or the bedroom tax, my lot haven't introduced targets at Job Centres where the employees have to knock back so many claimants per week, I could go on.  Vile is a mild expletive for this government John.

To be fair though, the last Labour government, especially from 2005-2010, did:

 

- cut the NHS budgets of unfavoured departments to bolster those that get the headline attention.  Thousands of mental health beds were cut across the UK in that time and limits to mental health treatments were introduced for the first time.  Competition was introduced across the NHS, as was a widening of the postcode lottery that politicians pretend doesn't exist.

- try to get rid of Royal Mail but it was blocked by the unions.  The Blair part of that government really did want shot of it and would have disposed of it if they had a chance.  Admittedly they may not have been as openly mercenary as the current Coalition were.

- introduce many taxes for small businesses that were punitive in nature with assumptions of guilt built in making it prohibitively expensive to challenge.  IR35 is a prime example but there are many others.  They could have easily introduced those rules in a fair way to tackle genuine problems but they implemented them as catch-alls with a view that it's better to catch a few innocents while stopping the guilty rather than other way around.  At the same time, they cut large business taxation and refused to close the loopholes the system that allow the big companies to pay relatively little tax on UK earnings.

- introduce target cultures in many public sector organisations, especially the NHS, where focus was changed from delivering clinical needs to meeting artificial targets.

 

On your last point about unfair and vindictive attacks on jobseekers, remember that the current Labour Work and Pensions shadow minister has promised to be even tougher on benefit claimants than the Tories. Note that she talks about benefit claimants rather than benefit abusers or fraudulent claimants.

 

Don't get me wrong on this, I'm voting Labour at the next election as the least worst option but they deserve little or no credit for any of the points you mention when comparing them to the current Coalition.  Again, being precise about it being a Coalition rather than the Tories.

 

Labour as it stands now is in the same position as the Democrats in the US.  The rational centre and centre-left people vote Democrat not because they see the Democrats as matching their views but because they know the alternative is the Republicans, the very naked truth is that a vote for Labour or the Democrats is a vote for a centre-right party with the aim of stopping a right wing nutjob party getting in.  At the last general election, I did try to do it the right way and vote for a party with heavily promoted centre-left policies, the Lib Dems, and all that did was help a Coalition with predominantly right wing actual deliverables come into force.  I've learned my lesson and will do my best to get the least worst option into power with my vote.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#9 JohnM

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:24 PM

John. You always remind me of those bitter fans whose hatred of their rivals far outweighs their support for their own club. A bit like the Everton fans who supposedly cheered their teams loss against Man City last week because it would help deny Liverpool the league title. 

 

 

No. Not at all. I exist merely to balance out Trojan's ritual  and programmed bitterness towards Conservatives.  Think of me  as the person Trojan aspires to be.



#10 Trojan

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:35 PM

No. Not at all. I exist merely to balance out Trojan's ritual  and programmed bitterness towards Conservatives.  Think of me  as the person Trojan aspires to be.

God forbid.  I  continue.  Labour didn't increase the qualification for unfair dismissal from one year to two, remove legal aid for unfair dismissal, cut the amount of notice needed before you can make someone redundant, remove the educational maintenance allowance, close the schools for the future scheme, cut council grant to the bone. But worst of all impose cuts in benefits, whilst increasing tax (20% VAT) for the many and reducing it (the .50p rate) for the few all in the name of a non existent crisis.  Sure we had  a deficit but nothing that wasn't being managed, this lot decided to take draconian measures to reduce it and make the least well off pay the cost.  They really are despicable.


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#11 JohnM

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:38 PM

My lot introduced the NHS, my lot aspire to full employment, my lot wouldn't have sold Royal Mail off to their mates for a song, my lot didn't introduce the poll tax or the bedroom tax, my lot haven't introduced targets at Job Centres where the employees have to knock back so many claimants per week, I could go on.  Vile is a mild expletive for this government John.

 

Ignorance is no excuse for misrepresentation.   The spare room subsidy was first introduced  in 2003 by your political role models.  The current government has now extended it to public sector housing. During the 13 years your pals were in power, they did nothing, absolutely nothing to resolve the acknowledge problems with public sector housing,  so don't give us all that "vile" ######. In any case, you know nowt about the formation of the NHS other than what you've been told during your indoctrination. 



#12 johnmatrix

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:31 PM

the board at astra zeneca should do whats best for its shareholders, after all isn't thats what they're there for?

isnt debt still at ridiculous proportions and rising have the cuts have made any headway into reducing it. is running a deficit acceptable? surely at some point it must come to an end, is the 50p rate acceptable, i wouldnt want someone taking away half my earnings. what do we get for all our taxes? 



#13 Li0nhead

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:28 AM

God forbid.  I  continue.  Labour didn't increase the qualification for unfair dismissal from one year to two, remove legal aid for unfair dismissal, cut the amount of notice needed before you can make someone redundant, remove the educational maintenance allowance, close the schools for the future scheme, cut council grant to the bone. But worst of all impose cuts in benefits, whilst increasing tax (20% VAT) for the many and reducing it (the .50p rate) for the few all in the name of a non existent crisis.  Sure we had  a deficit but nothing that wasn't being managed, this lot decided to take draconian measures to reduce it and make the least well off pay the cost.  They really are despicable.

Go on show us the way to utopia....

 

Evil tories....booooo....hisssss.......

 

Go on, whats the answer?

 

I dislike them but they were left with a situation on us spending more than we take in taxes. (and we still do)

 

What do they do?

Increase taxes? Cut spending? Mixture of the two?

Well in the real world they would pick one of the above options,

 

Or they could put on a red hat, increase spending, nationalise industry! flog bankers! Tax the rich! Come on what would you have done? Closed your eyes and spent more money?

 

Personally think they have done it in the wrong way but think they have no choice in what they are doing.......

More people employed in this country than ever before....Unlucky Comrade.


Edited by Li0nhead, 09 May 2014 - 12:29 AM.


#14 Wolford6

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 08:13 AM

My lot introduced the NHS, my lot aspire to full employment, my lot wouldn't have sold Royal Mail off to their mates for a song, my lot didn't introduce the poll tax or the bedroom tax, my lot haven't introduced targets at Job Centres where the employees have to knock back so many claimants per week

 

That's all true, Trojan. However, Smarmy Miliband is ducking questions on this takeover because Astra Zeneca is apparently a large subscriber to Labour Party funds.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#15 gingerjon

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 08:18 AM

That's all true, Trojan. However, Smarmy Miliband is ducking questions on this takeover because Astra Zeneca is apparently a large subscriber to Labour Party funds.

 

From the Independent:

 

Tory sources have claimed Mr Miliband faces questions over his impartiality after it emerged that Baroness Vadera, a Labour donor and a party donor, sits on AstraZeneca’s board of directors, which has turned down three Pfizer bids.

It has also been disclosed that Mark Textor, an Australian strategist who has worked for the Conservatives, has also advised Pfizer. His business partner, Lynton Crosby, is Mr Cameron’s election campaigns director.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#16 shrek

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:37 AM

Has anyone chirped up about the irony of "saving British jobs" when the current boards strategy is to open Global Technology Centers in Hungry, India and San Francisco doing away with hundreds if not thousands of jobs in the UK within AZ along with many more in 3rd party suppliers?



#17 Tiny Tim

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:00 PM

Has anyone chirped up about the irony of "saving British jobs" when the current boards strategy is to open Global Technology Centers in Hungry, India and San Francisco doing away with hundreds if not thousands of jobs in the UK within AZ along with many more in 3rd party suppliers?

 

Good point. Pharma companies have lost interest in the UK and are pulling out en-masse for low(er) cost countries. The Pfizer takeover of AZ will do little other than maybe accelerate this process.


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#18 gingerjon

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:02 PM

Good point. Pharma companies have lost interest in the UK and are pulling out en-masse for low(er) cost countries. The Pfizer takeover of AZ will do little other than maybe accelerate this process.

 

Genuine question: why have they lost interest?  Just cost?  I thought we had a pretty good research structure in this country compared to most other places.


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#19 shrek

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

Genuine question: why have they lost interest?  Just cost?  I thought we had a pretty good research structure in this country compared to most other places.

Personally I think alot is down to cost, these are big global companies who will operate as efficiently as possible.

 

Plus it pays to manufacture locally especially in the big emerging markets in the Asia Pacific regions.  Not only saving on shipping/distribution but opening a lot of doors to sell products just by being "local".

 

I'd imagine going forward there will be some R&D always based in centers of excellence in places like the UK and some drugs will be produced here, AZ produce one in Macclesfield for example that can only be worked on by ladies and they can't successfully produce anywhere else in the world.



#20 Tiny Tim

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:50 PM

Genuine question: why have they lost interest?  Just cost?  I thought we had a pretty good research structure in this country compared to most other places.

 

Cost and tax breaks are the biggest issues. The cost of launching a new drug has been heading up at a silly rate. When I was at uni we were told that it cost around $100 million for every new drug (development to launch), not so long back the figure was $1.3 billion per drug and that has probably gone up too. Meanwhile there is increasing pressure from funding bodies to cut costs of reimbursement to drug companies for new drugs. Something had to give.

 

A single clinical trial can cost in excess of $50 million, so a whole development program as well as regulatory submission costs are huge.

 

The UK is an expensive country to do work in. Most major pharma are investing heavily in operations in China, apparently Shanghai has one major road that has huge campuses representing most big drug companies; Novartis alone were investing around $2 billion in setting up a campus there while closing down UK sites. South America is also cheap and a lot of companies are pushing some activities out there too.

 

Pfizer has invested heavily in a new outsourcing model getting rid of a lot of internal staff with sites in UK and US taking the brunt of  the hits.

 

The UK has been responsible for discovering a vast number of medicines and was always considered a centre of excellence in the research and development field, but bottom line is it costs too much. How productive low cost options will be in bringing through the next wave of medicines only time will tell.


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