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Why representative rugby matters - an Aussie view


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#1 longboard

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:09 AM

I know he is not everyone's cup of darjeeling but there is good stuff from Phil Gould in this article about the importance of the representative and international game.

 

http://www.smh.com.a...0503-zr3te.html

 

Much with which to agree I reckon.



#2 Scubby

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:36 AM

Here's something to link closely to that. Brisbane Broncos wing Daniel Vidot wants to play for Queensland but doesn't want to give up playing for Samoa. I wonder if this is all going to come to a head and force the NRL's hand over Origin eligibility.

 

http://www.foxsports...c-1226909316379



#3 EastLondonMike

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:38 AM

Read another piece online the other day by Phil Gould that spoke up for International Rugby, and also a piece about Daniel Vidot who is apparently considering turning his back on a possible Origin jumper so he can play for Samoa in the 4 nations (someone obviously hasn't told him he could technically do both).

Though the attitude still seems to be that the rules should allow players to play for "second tier" nations if Australia doesn't pick them, rather than a "pick a country and stick with it rule". Though such a rule would only work if SOO rules were opened up to allow players such as Vidot, who are born and bred Queenslanders, to play for their state, but also for their country of heritage, as many wouldn't put their hand up to play for their heritage countries if they thought SOO was unobtainable.


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#4 EastLondonMike

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:43 AM

"Firstly, we need to change the eligibility rules so that if a player is not selected for an 'A nation', he can play for a 'B nation' without it affecting his chances of playing for the 'A nation' in the future." - Phil Gould

This is what i don't agree with. Its allowing players to play for Samoa, Fiji etc.. but as soon as they are deemed good enough for Australia, he's an Australian. This wont help International Rugby grow. It might give a few teams a moment or two in the sun but won't help the likes of PNG, Fiji, Tonga etc grow to a level where they can regularly compete against the current big three.

 


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#5 jus de couchon

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:29 PM

Effectively the NRL are strangling International League. SOO ,as good as it is, holds back players committing to their natural Country of birth/allegiance . If the game is to flourish Internationaly , and that is the only way forward , SOO must be dropped or reformed.

#6 Mushy

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:48 PM

Effectively the NRL are strangling International League. SOO ,as good as it is, holds back players committing to their natural Country of birth/allegiance . If the game is to flourish Internationaly , and that is the only way forward , SOO must be dropped or reformed.


Yikes you can't just get rid of 'Origin!

Personally I'd make it either genuinely where you were born (surely that's what 'origin' means?) in which case your have plenty players who didn't qualify, or you make it clear that SOO representation does not automatically force you only to play for Australia (although your still need legit reasons to represent NSW or QLD of course). Seems we aren't a mile away from the latter tbh.

The otherwise entertaining City vs Country game was anything but origin and was a bit of a joke with Fiji, PNG and plenty other nationals apparently representing where they were from.

I can't stand nation hopping, but as I mentioned on another thread, I do understand that nationality is really complex and a lot more than just where you were born.

#7 thirteenthman

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:02 PM

Changing Origin will only do so much. It won't stop Kiwis becoming Samoan, or Samoans becoming Cook Islanders. And it won't stop the potential situation mentioned on Boots N All last night, where a Welsh international has expressed his desire to play for England. 



#8 Scubby

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:32 PM

Changing Origin will only do so much. It won't stop Kiwis becoming Samoan, or Samoans becoming Cook Islanders. And it won't stop the potential situation mentioned on Boots N All last night, where a Welsh international has expressed his desire to play for England. 

 

Maybe not but what it will mean is that players like Milford and Vidot can openly talk about their excitement about playing for Samoa in the 4N without someone whispering in their ears telling them to fall into line.



#9 Futtocks

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:14 PM

Changing Origin will only do so much. It won't stop Kiwis becoming Samoan, or Samoans becoming Cook Islanders. And it won't stop the potential situation mentioned on Boots N All last night, where a Welsh international has expressed his desire to play for England. 

I agree, but it would be a start. 


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#10 thirteenthman

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:38 PM

Effectively the NRL are strangling International League. SOO ,as good as it is, holds back players committing to their natural Country of birth/allegiance . If the game is to flourish Internationaly , and that is the only way forward , SOO must be dropped or reformed.

 

Club RL strangles the development of the international game, both SL and NRL. It's the dominance of the club game that means our internationals are played at the end of the season. It's why we haven't got any mid season Internationals in this country, and why the one weekend with only 2 Internationals in it down under gets criticised for 'interrupting the season'. It's why even though we're a summer sport in this country, our showpiece World Cup is played in November. It's why so many players get persuaded to not play in Internationals because of some apparent injury that stops them from playing for an International team, but is not serious enough to stop them playing for their club.

 

It's even part of the reason why State of Origin is played on a Wednesday night, so the NRL clubs can still get to play at the weekend. And it's why calls for moving Origin to 3 consecutive weekends so more Internationals can be played will never be agreed on. The clubs won't stand for it, just as the SL clubs won't agree to stopping for a few weeks mid season in this country. 



#11 londonrlfan

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:54 PM

Changing Origin will only do so much. It won't stop Kiwis becoming Samoan, or Samoans becoming Cook Islanders. And it won't stop the potential situation mentioned on Boots N All last night, where a Welsh international has expressed his desire to play for England

 

Kopczak? 

 

Completely agree, people are forgetting Origin only affects Australia. What about if the Evans twins decide they want to be 'English' again, if they're good enough, in a couple of years? The current idea seems to be that you represent Aus, NZ and England when you're good enough too, otherwise you should play for a second nation until then. A very moronic idea, which does the game no good. 



#12 londonrlfan

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:57 PM

 It's why even though we're a summer sport in this country, our showpiece World Cup is played in November. 

 

Surely the WC should be at the end of the season rather than in the middle? Completely agree with everything else you said. 



#13 thirteenthman

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:13 PM

Kopczak? 

 

Phil Joseph. It's a few years since he last played for them, but he does have a few Welsh caps to his name.

 

Barrie McDermott and Terry O'Connors solution to this was to bring back the GB team so players could play for GB and their Celtic nation.



#14 thirteenthman

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:18 PM

Surely the WC should be at the end of the season rather than in the middle? Completely agree with everything else you said. 

 

I take your point on the timing in the season, but I just feel that a summer World Cup in this country would be better. Having sat at Wembley for the double header last year in near freezing temperatures, I would've preferred a summer tournament. 



#15 RugbyLeagueGeek

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:24 PM

And it won't stop the potential situation mentioned on Boots N All last night, where a Welsh international has expressed his desire to play for England. 

Reinstating GB for 4-yearly comps may help with that though.



#16 EastLondonMike

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 08:02 AM

It all boils down to the bigger nations not wanting to potentially get beat, and wanting to pool all the best players for themselves. Fear essentially.

The reason SOO is the way it is is down to each teams desire to win at all costs, and thats not just for the field of play. They'll pick, cajole and nurture any player they think can help them win, regardless.

The rules really could be very simple,  but are made difficult by a reluctance from the major players in the game to allow anyone else the potential to flourish. The message is "we want International growth, but not at our expense".

It really could be very easy. When you sign your first pro contract you state your country of birth and if you qualify for any other countries through heritage. You can elect to represent any of those nations as a first choice and second choice, third choice etc.

Your allowed one switch after a 12 month cooling off period from when you state your intention to switch. But thats it, no more switching back. So players could represent Samoa or Tonga and then if they wish, switch to NZ.. but thats it, no going back.

You might lose a few players from International rugby, players who choose to play for one of the bigger nations who then fall out of favour, or are replaced by a better player, but thats their bad luck. Life is tough.

You might also get players sticking with the likes of PNG and Fiji rather than risk playing one game for Australia or NZ and not getting picked again.

 

The same set of rules can apply to England and the heritage players who have played for the other home nations.

For SOO the original selection criteria was based on what state you were born in or what state the club was in where you signed your first pro contract. Return to that set of rules and drop the "must be available for Australia" rule and the likes of Milford, Vidot, Uate et al can represent their state, and their country of heritage, should they wish to do so, and still represent Australia if a green and gold jersey is what they desire.


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#17 longboard

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 09:03 AM

... and a bit of a brouhaha about the value of the Samoa vs Fiji match:-

 

 http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/kent-on-saturday-lack-of-interest-in-samoafiji-does-not-make-me-a-racist-and-just-demeans-the-term/story-fni3fh9n-1226903665661



#18 Futtocks

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 09:09 AM

Nobody does whiny self-justification like an Aussie hack who's misjudged his readership. Nobody! :biggrin: 


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#19 Adelaide Tiger

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:25 PM

Paul Kent isn't a racist as he was also against the Aus v NZ and the City v Country game.

But he's tool when he says that the Samoa v Fiji ought to be a curtain raiser before a Aus v NZ game. What hope is there for the international game when an RL journo treats smaller nations with utter contempt. If the Aussies weren't so scared about losing their no.1 status that they cajole, encourage polynesian players to opt for SOO then the game of RL could really take off.

With people like Paul Kent we might as well pull up the drawbridge and let international rl wither away.

P.S. Fogot to add. Last week after he had dismissed the Samoa v Fiji game because only 11 of the pkayers played in the NRL he then said "about 37% of players in the NRL after of polynesian descent".

So Paul why aren't all these players putting their hand up for Samoa, Fiji etc.

Edited by Adelaide Tiger, 09 May 2014 - 12:30 PM.





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