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Carcassonne view Super League 2


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#41 Bob8

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 08:20 PM

actions speak louder than words!

Whitehaven has a population of 25,000.  If the club motivated a typical attendance figure, that would amount to 1,250, but it could get 10% (comparable to St Helens) to reach 2,500.  Possibly, it would do freakishly well like Castleford (20%) and reach 5,000.  That is why they have it in for Whitehaven.


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"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#42 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:42 AM

Whitehaven has a population of 25,000. If the club motivated a typical attendance figure, that would amount to 1,250, but it could get 10% (comparable to St Helens) to reach 2,500. Possibly, it would do freakishly well like Castleford (20%) and reach 5,000. That is why they have it in for Whitehaven.

A town's population is a useless stat on its own. Anyone that assumes supporters only come from that town (and so make percentage comparisons with the population figure) needs to have a reality check.
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#43 DoubleD

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:02 AM

A town's population is a useless stat on its own. Anyone that assumes supporters only come from that town (and so make percentage comparisons with the population figure) needs to have a reality check.

 

True, but i think Whitehaven's attendances speak for themselves. But hey, they now have the opportunity under the new structure to get to Super League and test that theory. Somehow i don't think they will be a success, which is a shame because i'd like to see a strong Cumbrian team. I certainly don't think you can say the RFL have it in for any Cumbrian teams though, the development of the regional pathways and performance centres proves that. It is not the RFL's responsibility to run the individual clubs - they should be pushing their own ambitions.



#44 Bob8

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 05:28 AM

A town's population is a useless stat on its own. Anyone that assumes supporters only come from that town (and so make percentage comparisons with the population figure) needs to have a reality check.

True, the football clubs in Everton, Tottenham and Aston manage to appeal outside their strict area.  However, those areas are urban.  A 10,000 attendance on a regular basis is not feasible.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#45 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:39 AM

True, the football clubs in Everton, Tottenham and Aston manage to appeal outside their strict area. However, those areas are urban. A 10,000 attendance on a regular basis is not feasible.

And that's the kicker. The best way to measure a clubs potential is by measuring the population in an area with a certain distance as the radius to see what potential out of towners may come.

London have the opposite problem when people go "well there's 13million of them!"
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#46 Bob8

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:41 PM

And that's the kicker. The best way to measure a clubs potential is by measuring the population in an area with a certain distance as the radius to see what potential out of towners may come.

London have the opposite problem when people go "well there's 13million of them!"

Indeed, London shows it is potential rather than what will be realised.  We have a club in Copenhagen, but are certainly realistic enough to know we have to find a niche, rather than thinking we have a ready resource of 1.5 million fans.  

 

There is room in London for a successful rugby league club in Super League, whether it would be one that has the traditional model is questionable, when it is run on the Runcorn Highfield model, it is highly doubtful.  Incidentally, Carcassone has a population of under 50,000, so a Super League club would be a struggle (though that is a little more than Castleford).


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#47 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 09:43 PM

Indeed, London shows it is potential rather than what will be realised. We have a club in Copenhagen, but are certainly realistic enough to know we have to find a niche, rather than thinking we have a ready resource of 1.5 million fans.

There is room in London for a successful rugby league club in Super League, whether it would be one that has the traditional model is questionable, when it is run on the Runcorn Highfield model, it is highly doubtful. Incidentally, Carcassone has a population of under 50,000, so a Super League club would be a struggle (though that is a little more than Castleford).

You've fallen back into the trap of looking at the town's population on its own. It means virtually nothing compared to the population of the surrounding area.
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#48 Mr Wind Up

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:43 AM

True, the football clubs in Everton, Tottenham and Aston manage to appeal outside their strict area.  However, those areas are urban.  A 10,000 attendance on a regular basis is not feasible.

 

Everton, Tottenham and Aston Villa may as well be called Liverpool, London and Birmingham. They're all suburbs in their inner cities. Aston is in the dead centre of Birmingham, Everton is a few miles from Liverpool city centre, and Tottenham is 8 miles or so from the City. Of course they appeal outside their strict area, because their strict area is the major city they happen to be a part of. 

 

You've fallen back into the trap of looking at the town's population on its own. It means virtually nothing compared to the population of the surrounding area.

 

Except that Carcassone doesn't have Paris on the doorstep of its surrounding area. It's a pretty secluded area. Even if you managed to round up 100,000 people in its surrounding area, you're still looking at one of the smaller markets. Further out, on one side of it towards the west is Toulouse, on the other to the east is Perpignan. 

 

None of that is to say Carcassone wouldn't be a good addition. Their ambitions are healthy. The more the merrier. Toulouse remains the priority however. 


Edited by Mr Wind Up, 19 May 2014 - 05:44 AM.


#49 Bob8

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:47 AM

True, the football clubs in Everton, Tottenham and Aston manage to appeal outside their strict area.  However, those areas are urban.  A 10,000 attendance on a regular basis is not feasible.

 

 

Everton, Tottenham and Aston Villa may as well be called Liverpool, London and Birmingham. They're all suburbs in their inner cities. Aston is in the dead centre of Birmingham, Everton is a few miles from Liverpool city centre, and Tottenham is 8 miles or so from the City. Of course they appeal outside their strict area, because their strict area is the major city they happen to be a part of. 

 

 

Except that Carcassone doesn't have Paris on the doorstep of its surrounding area. It's a pretty secluded area. Even if you managed to round up 100,000 people in its surrounding area, you're still looking at one of the smaller markets. Further out, on one side of it towards the west is Toulouse, on the other to the east is Perpignan. 

 

None of that is to say Carcassone wouldn't be a good addition. Their ambitions are healthy. The more the merrier. Toulouse remains the priority however. 

Regarding the bit in bold, if you read to the second half of my post above, you will see I directly address that.   What I mean by them being urban is that they are part of a city rather than the countryside, so the population argument does not apply.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#50 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:16 AM

Regarding the bit in bold, if you read to the second half of my post above, you will see I directly address that. What I mean by them being urban is that they are part of a city rather than the countryside, so the population argument does not apply.

So Castleford might as well be called Wakefield ;)
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#51 Bob8

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:38 AM

So Castleford might as well be called Wakefield ;)

I am sure Castleford benefit from Pontefract and Knottingley. 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#52 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:44 AM

I am sure Castleford benefit from Pontefract and Knottingley.

...which are both in Wakefield as well.
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#53 The Parksider

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 01:07 PM

I am sure Castleford benefit from Pontefract and Knottingley. 

 

Well we keep defaulting to narrow definitions of potential customer bases. As you say concentrating on the idea only people living in Castleford will support Castleford is quite wrong. I pick up on any anecdotal evidence I can on this sort of thing. Castleford benefit from people living in North West Leeds.

 

I wonder how many people living in Castleford do not come from Castleford? I wonder how many died in the wool Castleford people no longer live in Castleford? The big anecdotal story I remember came from years ago when we used to declare Fev the best supported club ever in terms of the percentage of the population that watched the club. One in seven Featherstone people supported Featherstone, better than Manchester United's support. 

 

But a poster called Cas Vegas once explained that he knew a number of Cas fans he'd meet at the ground and was hard pressed to think of any of them who actually lived in or came from  Castleford. That got me thinking as regards Hunslet and over the years I've bumped into many fans who have never lived or come from there. 

 

In recent years it's good to ask some fans at Leeds where they come from, where they live? Selby, York, Barnsley, Harrogate come to mind. But it's nothing to the anecdotal evidence of coachloads of North Wales people who arrive at Goodison Park every other week in the soccer season.

 

This clashes greatly with anecdotal evidence offered that suspiciously takes an unrealistic line like I don't know anyone from Keighley/Halifax who supports Bradford.  

 

I suggest if the facts were known and the circles were drawn they would all overlap each other to a massive extent, and I feel we would then see how many RL clubs along the M62 are chasing the same fans....



#54 keighley

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:41 PM

Well we keep defaulting to narrow definitions of potential customer bases. As you say concentrating on the idea only people living in Castleford will support Castleford is quite wrong. I pick up on any anecdotal evidence I can on this sort of thing. Castleford benefit from people living in North West Leeds.

 

I wonder how many people living in Castleford do not come from Castleford? I wonder how many died in the wool Castleford people no longer live in Castleford? The big anecdotal story I remember came from years ago when we used to declare Fev the best supported club ever in terms of the percentage of the population that watched the club. One in seven Featherstone people supported Featherstone, better than Manchester United's support. 

 

But a poster called Cas Vegas once explained that he knew a number of Cas fans he'd meet at the ground and was hard pressed to think of any of them who actually lived in or came from  Castleford. That got me thinking as regards Hunslet and over the years I've bumped into many fans who have never lived or come from there. 

 

In recent years it's good to ask some fans at Leeds where they come from, where they live? Selby, York, Barnsley, Harrogate come to mind. But it's nothing to the anecdotal evidence of coachloads of North Wales people who arrive at Goodison Park every other week in the soccer season.

 

This clashes greatly with anecdotal evidence offered that suspiciously takes an unrealistic line like I don't know anyone from Keighley/Halifax who supports Bradford.  

 

I suggest if the facts were known and the circles were drawn they would all overlap each other to a massive extent, and I feel we would then see how many RL clubs along the M62 are chasing the same fans....

 

Keighley are not on the M62, Bradford are. Keighley's catchment area runs to the north of the town into the Craven area as far as Skipton. Any fans here are not overlapping with anybody. Keighley, like York, are actually somewhat removed from the M62 corridor. Anecdotal or not the numbers of fans from Keighley going to Bradford will be minimal and next season there will not even be the lure of SL as a ruse to get them to travel as both teams will be in the same division.






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