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Rugby league in London, what next?


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251 replies to this topic

#21 latchford albion

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:26 PM

So we need a really powerful first couple of singles and first album?

And the equivalents of Terri Hooley and John Peel.  Then we've got it cracked  ;)



#22 westlondonfan

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:59 PM

And the equivalents of Terri Hooley and John Peel. Then we've got it cracked ;)


I think in the music business timing is very important. So if for example Inflammable Material had come out five years later or five years earlier then it may have done nothing. The timing has to be right. I am not sure the relevance of that statement but it may be relevant in some way. I recall hearing an account of RL in Wales where a club was set up in the 19226/27 in Pontypridd and it was a complete failure because it was launched at the wrong time. While at other times circumstances were more favourable but chances were not taken.

Edited by westlondonfan, 18 May 2014 - 08:00 PM.


#23 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:27 AM

Yeah I agree, a more regional name is needed rather than London, although you don't really need one imo, like Quins, Saracens, Wasps, Arsenal etc. 'Broncos' is a terrible name and has nothing to do with London or England, whatsoever. 

Nevertheless it is the name that is most recognized and identified with. Broncos really don't need any new names, they have had far too many identities already, this is their main problem.



#24 The Parksider

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:27 AM

1. Richard Lamb, who was keen on buying Bradford, is based in London. Why not chase him up and ask why he wouldn't be interested? If he would, then get him on as owner asap.

2. The RFL should pay for 2/3 development officers in London and the SE, to continue helping develop the young talent coming through. More of an effort to tie down youngsters to longer contracts needs to be made, but without a committed owner in it for the long haul, we won't be able to. Once you have the nucleus of the side with youth, you can build the rest.

3. The old fans who no longer come, locals to the stadium (wherever they're based), school kids, students, sports fans, disillusioned/non-league football fans etc.

 

Lamb knows there's a London club to pick up he also know there's a bill of several £Million a year to pay for over a decade to make the club competitive at Superleague level, and heavy bills to use a suitable ground. He also knows SLE/RFL will provide no real help at all, and that the club will be good for 500 fans a game whilst the young players will have to aim north or concentrate on Union for a pro career whilst he's footing all these bills.

 

Love all the positiveness of the posts, it's just what RFL/SLE need to get them off the hook of abandoning the game in a retreat to the north



#25 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:30 AM

IMO the northern clubs benefit from being in a network of clubs. Players, coaches, know-how etc can pass from one club to another. They also benefit from short travel times to games and being easy to reach for away fans.

 

For RL to succeed in London and the south, it is necessary to replicate this network down south. It's going to take time but progress has already been made.



#26 The Parksider

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:31 AM

What are CC1 clubs?

 

A common reference to third tier clubs, where the game is "survival" rather than building, a role which the Broncos will be taking on after this year. 

 

To get a handle on what the future of the London Broncos will be like just look at the London Skolars, it's really rather easy to do.

 

The comparison may not be that fair, after all Skolars have a more settled home base.



#27 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:38 AM

The punk metaphor is interesting  but although punk made a huge impact, it was never really a commercial success and it was pretty faddish. It's never going to die but it stopped being a "big deal" a long, long time ago. Peel may have helped its spread but he didn't stick with it and found something else.



#28 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:39 AM

A common reference to third tier clubs, where the game is "survival" rather than building, a role which the Broncos will be taking on after this year. 

 

To get a handle on what the future of the London Broncos will be like just look at the London Skolars, it's really rather easy to do.

 

The comparison may not be that fair, after all Skolars have a more settled home base.

Perhaps "expansionists" would be kind enough to stop using Skolars / Hemel / Oxford / Glos etc as an insult then we might get some expansion. Why put down the efforts of others?



#29 iffleyox

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:18 AM

Perhaps "expansionists" would be kind enough to stop using Skolars / Hemel / Oxford / Glos etc as an insult then we might get some expansion. Why put down the efforts of others?

 

Quite. I remember thinking, as I sat in the sunshine at Iffley Road yesterday afternoon, what a colossal waste of my time it all was.

 

And it's not a survival vs building dichotomy either. Before last season we didn't have a club, so we built one, and did alright over the season.

 

This season we've added an U19 side and are recruiting for a Ladies side. But of course, none of that counts as building does it? And people complain about there being no interest outside the M62 - then when someone does something about it we get sneered at because we didn't have the foresight to do it in 1895. This sport is really its own worst enemy.



#30 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:13 PM

Quite. I remember thinking, as I sat in the sunshine at Iffley Road yesterday afternoon, what a colossal waste of my time it all was.

 

And it's not a survival vs building dichotomy either. Before last season we didn't have a club, so we built one, and did alright over the season.

 

This season we've added an U19 side and are recruiting for a Ladies side. But of course, none of that counts as building does it? And people complain about there being no interest outside the M62 - then when someone does something about it we get sneered at because we didn't have the foresight to do it in 1895. This sport is really its own worst enemy.

You see if you aren't a SL club then you don't matter in the world view of some.



#31 Johnoco

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:16 PM

The punk metaphor is interesting but although punk made a huge impact, it was never really a commercial success and it was pretty faddish. It's never going to die but it stopped being a "big deal" a long, long time ago. Peel may have helped its spread but he didn't stick with it and found something else.

?

Peel didn't 'find something else'. He always played a really wide selection of music on his show and that never changed. Certainly in the early 80's he was the only dj who would play the more extreme hardcore stuff. And then Hank Williams or something. So its totally innacurate to say he moved on to other things.

#32 The Parksider

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:21 PM

Quite. I remember thinking, as I sat in the sunshine at Iffley Road yesterday afternoon, what a colossal waste of my time it all was.

 

And it's not a survival vs building dichotomy either. Before last season we didn't have a club, so we built one, and did alright over the season.

 

This season we've added an U19 side and are recruiting for a Ladies side. But of course, none of that counts as building does it? And people complain about there being no interest outside the M62 - then when someone does something about it we get sneered at because we didn't have the foresight to do it in 1895. This sport is really its own worst enemy.

 

I'm quite sure you did not feel that your time was wasted going along to support your club, and I am quite sure that you feel proud of what your club has built and continues to build into the structure and fabric of the Rugby League game. I am quite sure that like the fans of all amateur RL clubs and RL clubs that can play low level semi professional, including myself, whether it's a club that has a history reaching back to Victorian times or whether you and your colleagues started building it last season, you will enjoy your journey as you strive to build things up or alternatively survive the various crises that can befall all such sports clubs. 

 

The con trick is to get you thinking people are saying your efforts are a waste of time and that they are not appreciated. They are of course nothing of the sort on either count. The question here is about what next in London given the Broncos demise as a professional outfit (which your club is not).

 

All the "solutions" I see on the thread are with respect whistling in the wind when it comes to resurrecting Rugby League in London. Those who are quite happy to see the back of the Broncos as a professional entity will pat you on the head and make nice noises about what your club is doing to rise to the heights. However they know as well as I do it isn't going to happen, and they too know all the attempts to "organically grow" small RL clubs into professional RL clubs outside (and even along) the M62 which date back to the early 1900's haven't produced a single viable professional entity save for arguably Castleford.

 

So don't be duped. Every little achievement by every little club is fantastic and wholly appreciated by myself, but if we want a solution for the demise of RL in London the solution was/and remains for the powers in RL to back the Pro club, especially on the back of the massive £200m TV contract that could have been bigger had the clubs not just jumped in for their cut without a thought for anyone else.

 

The rise of pro-clubs in Gateshead, South Wales and London saw real growth, the demise eagerly welcomed privately by many ironically does not help your cause. Don't you think that if the RFL/SLE could engineer a successful pro club outside the heartlands that would not actually be extremely good for clubs like yours? What does it do for your club when the RFL/SLE retreat back to the M62???    


Edited by The Parksider, 19 May 2014 - 12:40 PM.


#33 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:01 PM

The only "duping" is by those who know full well that top-down development has produced nothing but failed clubs and know that organic growth has only been possible since the end of rugby apartheid in 1995.

 

Supposed expansionists push a method that has had over a hundred years to work and has failed every time with little to show for it and rubbish the one that's only been possible for less than 20 years but has delivered several semi-pro clubs.

 

The fallback argument is always to refer to the "bank of the RFL" who are presumed to be sitting on millions of pounds but just don't know what to do with it. If only someone would just suggest to them that they could invest in London then all would be saved.

 

Except the money doesn't really exist. It's been spent on other things.


Edited by Northern Sol, 19 May 2014 - 04:11 PM.


#34 keighley

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:00 PM

Lamb knows there's a London club to pick up he also know there's a bill of several £Million a year to pay for over a decade to make the club competitive at Superleague level, and heavy bills to use a suitable ground. He also knows SLE/RFL will provide no real help at all, and that the club will be good for 500 fans a game whilst the young players will have to aim north or concentrate on Union for a pro career whilst he's footing all these bills.

 

Love all the positiveness of the posts, it's just what RFL/SLE need to get them off the hook of abandoning the game in a retreat to the north

 

Hopefully, he's a cockeyed optimist of the most extreme kind. :sleep:



#35 londonrlfan

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:10 PM

Lamb knows there's a London club to pick up he also know there's a bill of several £Million a year to pay for over a decade to make the club competitive at Superleague level, and heavy bills to use a suitable ground. He also knows SLE/RFL will provide no real help at all, and that the club will be good for 500 fans a game whilst the young players will have to aim north or concentrate on Union for a pro career whilst he's footing all these bills.

 

Love all the positiveness of the posts, it's just what RFL/SLE need to get them off the hook of abandoning the game in a retreat to the north

 

That's the thing though, a well run and organised London club has enormous potential. It's the biggest commercial department in the UK and one of the biggest in the world. He must have mates in the corporate sector to get sponsoring/hospitality to the club and as I said, if you have a stronger London club, RL will benefit throughout the country. Mark Evans, who turned Harlequins from relegation fodder to having 80k crowds at Twickenham, is now CEO at Melbourne Storm, another big player the club massively missed out on, we can't afford to let another opportunity slip. 



#36 EastLondonMike

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:19 PM

Mark Evans saw how the Bronco's were run first hand, and saw what a huge job it would be to get them to a decent level. Thats why he probably never even entertained the idea of getting involved.

Sadly im of the opinion that the Bronco's in their current format will have to die before anyone comes in to attempt to build the club up to where it could be. If Hughes offered to sell the club for a £1 you'd want to haggle.. It really would have to be a case of starting from scratch.


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#37 londonrlfan

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:22 PM

I believe it was because he didn't like David Hughes, which is why he never got involved. 



#38 keighley

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:22 PM

If I was an investor looking to bankroll a club in London, I thinlk Skolars would look like a better bet than the Broncos. They have junior teams, a large home base with bags of potential close to an Underground, with a newly laid all purpose pitch and I think no debt.

 

The Broncos have a very unstable ground situation where most gate receipt etc go to a soccer club and no history whatsoever in that area.



#39 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:37 PM

If I was an investor looking to bankroll a club in London, I thinlk Skolars would look like a better bet than the Broncos. They have junior teams, a large home base with bags of potential close to an Underground, with a newly laid all purpose pitch and I think no debt.

 

The Broncos have a very unstable ground situation where most gate receipt etc go to a soccer club and no history whatsoever in that area.

I have to agree.

 

Where previously the debate was characterised by the pin-in-the-map-brigade as expansionists versus flatcap ferret botherers with a hatred for all things south of Sheffield, they've now chosen to shift to "organic growth is all very well but it won't deliver a SL club".

 

I think we're all aware that Skolars / Hemel / Oxford etc won't be going near SL without substantial external investment. It's just that some people refuse to see a connection between developing the club and attracting major sponsorship. You see you are supposed to do nothing at all until a major investor comes along and decides that Watford is the perfect location for a professional rugby league team.

 

The fact that this has rarely happened in the past and when it has happened then it has always ended badly just doesn't sink in. In reality we need more clubs like Skolars and then we need the outside investor to take them to the next level.



#40 keighley

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:05 PM

I have to agree.

 

Where previously the debate was characterised by the pin-in-the-map-brigade as expansionists versus flatcap ferret botherers with a hatred for all things south of Sheffield, they've now chosen to shift to "organic growth is all very well but it won't deliver a SL club".

 

I think we're all aware that Skolars / Hemel / Oxford etc won't be going near SL without substantial external investment. It's just that some people refuse to see a connection between developing the club and attracting major sponsorship. You see you are supposed to do nothing at all until a major investor comes along and decides that Watford is the perfect location for a professional rugby league team.

 

The fact that this has rarely happened in the past and when it has happened then it has always ended badly just doesn't sink in. In reality we need more clubs like Skolars and then we need the outside investor to take them to the next level.

 

I agree 100%. Broncos bring absolutely nothing to the party. Even Hemel with their new stand, new car park, school teams in the town and a long standing (30yrs) presence in the area have more to offer than the Broncos.

 

Crusaders with their slow build to success, incorporating amateur and schoolboy/girl developments and strong promotions within the Wrexham area are a better bet than the " Here we are, watch us in SL, oops we have no money, see you later top down Crusaders that preceded them. If the current Crusaders slowly progress, they will be  a suitable candidate, with a suitable base in the area for an investor to move them to the top than the linkless transplant that was the first edition.