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Rugby league in London, what next?


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#41 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:34 PM

Unless you have a substantial amount of money it would be pointless for London to continue. One thing about Sports is that to be successful you need not just to have the right people on the field but the right people off it as well.and its bnot just a team that would need funding but an infrastructure to be built  London will lose all players of note from their squad unless for promotion to be realistic Championship clubs operate to the same salary cap as their Super League opponents.This will not happen, though having Bradford as the fallen giant and "elephant in the room" may cause some revision upwards.

 

The fact is the 8/8/8 will permanently fix the composition of the upper levels of the league unless a Super League club falls into financial trouble but will allow traditional clubs with average attendances last year of 2,403,1,707, 1,556 and 803 can achive their dream which despite the pounding of keyboards, really is to be able to play a series of hastily arranged local derbies at the back end of the season for the gate money. Reality and economics dictate that going any further is a bridge too far, as the former Halifax Chief Executive now titular head of the RLIF knows

 

Organic growth below this will be the organic stagnation a club like London Skolars epitomises, Ironically one sport that is a good example of Top down expansion is the NFL Wembley series which will probably result in a London franchise by the end of the decade, as Steve Mascord has pointed out no watering of the grass roots here but there is an increase in participation in another alien sport in the south directly attributable to the success of the series. The series is not without opposition stateside but the commitment of the League and its consitituent clubs to spread the brand and develop new markets has paid off to the extent as one RL fans poster put it that the NFL is already bigger than Rugby League in the south and likely to remain so.

 

I am afraid the game is up south of Wakefield and will result in a future of clubs with average attendance of around 342 watched by bitter Northern exiles ranting at the world around them. Truly "pins on the map" that fool no-one. Many on this board will be secretly jubilant at this however as league's new dark age takes hold and economic reality bites into a game puffing itself up on the "success" of reasonable attendances fuelled by cheap and discounted tickets and Pay TV viewing figures without actually understanding what drives commercial Pay TV networks. Sooner or later the number of casualties amongst "traditional" clubs, in particular those relegated to Championship 1 that the RFL simply cannot bail out will cause a re-think

 

The enlightened ones will face a problem, by 2016 "Rugby" will be Rugby Union outside the M62 corridor and perhaps encroaching inside, Other sports will also not have gone away but be stronger and down here much stronger. In addition the Pay TV Broadcaster who will cough up no more cash for a filler sport having bounced the sport into a long term deal. They may wish to expand the game of Rugby League but there will be neither room nor demand elsewhere as the "alternative" sport market will have been claimed by other less parochial sports. One thing we all agree on is that the field of dreams approach does not work for any sport.

 

London's problems are basically their own making but there never has been an ideological commitment save lip service towards expansion of the sport from the governing body post-Lewis and from a substantial section of Players, Coaches, Chairmen and RL Journalists all of who in their own small way support the game they profess to love in the same way a rope supports a hanging man.

 

 The legacy of the Nigel Wood era to the game of Rugby League is best summed up by this extract from Robert Browning's 1845 poem The Lost Leader

 

We shall march prospering,—not thro’ his presence;

  Songs may inspirit us,—not from his lyre;
Deeds will be done,—while he boasts his quiescence,
  Still bidding crouch whom the rest bade aspire:
Blot out his name, then, record one lost soul more,
  One task more declined, one more footpath untrod,
One more devils’-triumph[ and sorrow for angels,
  One wrong more to man, one more insult to God!
Life’s night begins: let him never come back to us!
  There would be doubt, hesitation, and pain,
Forced praise on our part—the glimmer of twilight,
  Never glad confident morning again!


I am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths


 

 

David Hughes to Ian Lenagan Page 134 - A Pastel Revolution - Fletcher and Gordas - 2006

 

Being an outsider, it is easiest to see what is wrong with the sport. It's a fantastic sport that has been undersold and under-marketed  because people who run it probably want to keep it the way it is

 

 

Dr Marwan Koukash to Joanthan Lieu. Sunday Telegraph 9th March 2014

 

 


#42 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:03 PM

Anyone who thinks that rugby does not already equal rugby union in the South really needs to get out more.

 

As for the NFL, bear in mind that a new franchise costs around $800 million and wages are higher than in the EPL. Naturally they will get a lot of publicity and cause top-down growth but we've been here before. I don't want to diss American football as I quite like it but you are unlikely to ever get anything other than kickers from the UK.

 

The fact is when the Monarchs were around, there was a big "Operation Discovery" project to try to find talent in Europe capable of playing at a level below the NFL. There were awards handed out and the top two winners were kickers, the third was a man called Victor Ebubike. He was a running back and had carried the ball a total of three times during the season.

 

To get any kind of team together costs huge amounts of cash (think of all the equipment) and it's impossible to compete with the Americans as they take this sport very, very seriously in High Schools and Colleges. Hard to replicate that with a few kicks around in the park.

 

In contrast rugby league is much, much more accessible. I suspect that if this NFL venture ever gets off the ground it will be a 2-3 season wonder.


Edited by Northern Sol, 19 May 2014 - 09:16 PM.


#43 keighley

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:27 PM

Unless you have a substantial amount of money it would be pointless for London to continue. One thing about Sports is that to be successful you need not just to have the right people on the field but the right people off it as well.and its bnot just a team that would need funding but an infrastructure to be built  London will lose all players of note from their squad unless for promotion to be realistic Championship clubs operate to the same salary cap as their Super League opponents.This will not happen, though having Bradford as the fallen giant and "elephant in the room" may cause some revision upwards.

 

The fact is the 8/8/8 will permanently fix the composition of the upper levels of the league unless a Super League club falls into financial trouble but will allow traditional clubs with average attendances last year of 2,403,1,707, 1,556 and 803 can achive their dream which despite the pounding of keyboards, really is to be able to play a series of hastily arranged local derbies at the back end of the season for the gate money. Reality and economics dictate that going any further is a bridge too far, as the former Halifax Chief Executive now titular head of the RLIF knows

 

Organic growth below this will be the organic stagnation a club like London Skolars epitomises, Ironically one sport that is a good example of Top down expansion is the NFL Wembley series which will probably result in a London franchise by the end of the decade, as Steve Mascord has pointed out no watering of the grass roots here but there is an increase in participation in another alien sport in the south directly attributable to the success of the series. The series is not without opposition stateside but the commitment of the League and its consitituent clubs to spread the brand and develop new markets has paid off to the extent as one RL fans poster put it that the NFL is already bigger than Rugby League in the south and likely to remain so.

 

I am afraid the game is up south of Wakefield and will result in a future of clubs with average attendance of around 342 watched by bitter Northern exiles ranting at the world around them. Truly "pins on the map" that fool no-one. Many on this board will be secretly jubilant at this however as league's new dark age takes hold and economic reality bites into a game puffing itself up on the "success" of reasonable attendances fuelled by cheap and discounted tickets and Pay TV viewing figures without actually understanding what drives commercial Pay TV networks. Sooner or later the number of casualties amongst "traditional" clubs, in particular those relegated to Championship 1 that the RFL simply cannot bail out will cause a re-think

 

The enlightened ones will face a problem, by 2016 "Rugby" will be Rugby Union outside the M62 corridor and perhaps encroaching inside, Other sports will also not have gone away but be stronger and down here much stronger. In addition the Pay TV Broadcaster who will cough up no more cash for a filler sport having bounced the sport into a long term deal. They may wish to expand the game of Rugby League but there will be neither room nor demand elsewhere as the "alternative" sport market will have been claimed by other less parochial sports. One thing we all agree on is that the field of dreams approach does not work for any sport.

 

London's problems are basically their own making but there never has been an ideological commitment save lip service towards expansion of the sport from the governing body post-Lewis and from a substantial section of Players, Coaches, Chairmen and RL Journalists all of who in their own small way support the game they profess to love in the same way a rope supports a hanging man.

 

 The legacy of the Nigel Wood era to the game of Rugby League is best summed up by this extract from Robert Browning's 1845 poem The Lost Leader

 

We shall march prospering,—not thro’ his presence;

  Songs may inspirit us,—not from his lyre;
Deeds will be done,—while he boasts his quiescence,
  Still bidding crouch whom the rest bade aspire:
Blot out his name, then, record one lost soul more,
  One task more declined, one more footpath untrod,
One more devils’-triumph[ and sorrow for angels,
  One wrong more to man, one more insult to God!
Life’s night begins: let him never come back to us!
  There would be doubt, hesitation, and pain,
Forced praise on our part—the glimmer of twilight,
  Never glad confident morning again!

 

What a pessimistic view, truly a glass half empty view.

 

The length and breadth of RL in London and indeed, all points south of Sheffield and north of Keighley is huge compared to what was in place when the original Fulham club was launched from the banks of the Thames. I think the roots are sufficiently deep to survive the possible loss of the Broncos.

 

The sources of funding from rich individuals in the last several years from Salford to Perpignan via Featherstone, Widnes and Hull and, indeed, London is amazing. I would not write off the possibility of a deus ex machine lurking in the wings to ride to the rescue from a totally unexpected location.

 

The threat from the NFL has been dealt with by another poster and they will also face a severe players shortage in the coming years.

 

RU is a danger but it may have crossed a bridge or two too far in it's professional expansion and has huge financial black holes which may slow it's progress.

 

The huge amount of people buying World Cup tickets from the London and the South suggests there may be a latent fan base for our game. We must harness and energise this support.

 

Finally if you want a poem I prefer Chumbawamba's

 

I get knocked down but I get up again, you're never going to keep me down ( and repeat)

 

Or maybe a bit of Kipling

 

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two imposters just the same.

 

If you can hear the truth you've spoken

twisted  y kanes to make a trap for fools

 

Or watch the thing you gave your life to, broken,

And stop and build em up with worn out tools

 

...... yours is the earth and everything that's in it.



#44 Defender1

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:49 AM

I cannot believe people think Rugby League is as big as Rugby Union outside of the heartlands, you only have to look at Sports England participation figures to see how many people are playing each sport. Nearly every RL team outside of the heartlands are propped up by RU players playing off season and Playing out of RU clubs

#45 Konkrete

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 12:41 PM

It takes a long time to establish a SL club capable of standing on its own two feet in terms of finances, attendances and player development.  London have been fighting this cause for many years now, but the issues of change of ownership, finances, location and name have set back the timetable.  The London Catalan game from the Magic weekend was for me a very interesting one, and it was great to see so many youngsters from the south playing well at SL level.  It's just such a shame that the game has turned its back on expansionism through reverting to P&R.  I might be wrong, but London only just recently seem to be reaping the rewards of all that junior development in the capital and SE by them and all the other clubs down there over the last 20yrs.  And that's the thing, it takes an awfully long time to get to this position.

 

For those taking the line that London don't offer the competition anything then think again.  For a player of any sport to reach the top there has to be a structure, a ladder to climb, and there has to be a local vision of what the top looks like.  If London are not in SL then the top of that ladder is removed and will have a very negative effect on player development, and with a population of nigh on 5m that's a lot of lost opportunity.  I'm personally involved in another sport spanning abilities top to bottom and know this to be absolutely true.

 

This is that sort of damage that a return to P&R is going to have.  We could effectively be trading 10/20yrs of development London and the SE so that Fev or Leigh can play in SL for a season (please - no offence).  I cannot believe that the powers that be think that allowing London, and possibly Catalan in a season or two's time maybe, to be relegated is good for the game.

 

(No Bradford comments required this is about London)


Edited by Konkrete, 20 May 2014 - 12:44 PM.

Integrity is shown when no-one is looking.

#46 Northern Sol

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:23 PM

It takes a long time to establish a SL club capable of standing on its own two feet in terms of finances, attendances and player development.  London have been fighting this cause for many years now, but the issues of change of ownership, finances, location and name have set back the timetable.  The London Catalan game from the Magic weekend was for me a very interesting one, and it was great to see so many youngsters from the south playing well at SL level.  It's just such a shame that the game has turned its back on expansionism through reverting to P&R.  I might be wrong, but London only just recently seem to be reaping the rewards of all that junior development in the capital and SE by them and all the other clubs down there over the last 20yrs.  And that's the thing, it takes an awfully long time to get to this position.

 

For those taking the line that London don't offer the competition anything then think again.  For a player of any sport to reach the top there has to be a structure, a ladder to climb, and there has to be a local vision of what the top looks like.  If London are not in SL then the top of that ladder is removed and will have a very negative effect on player development, and with a population of nigh on 5m that's a lot of lost opportunity.  I'm personally involved in another sport spanning abilities top to bottom and know this to be absolutely true.

 

This is that sort of damage that a return to P&R is going to have.  We could effectively be trading 10/20yrs of development London and the SE so that Fev or Leigh can play in SL for a season (please - no offence).  I cannot believe that the powers that be think that allowing London, and possibly Catalan in a season or two's time maybe, to be relegated is good for the game.

 

(No Bradford comments required this is about London)

The thing is that London are dying as a team without P&R. Yet another season of getting stuffed every week is just going to make the crowds go down even further. There is no point keeping licensing for Broncos' benefit because relegation is probably the best thing that could happen to them right now.



#47 The Parksider

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 04:18 PM

It takes a long time to establish a SL club capable of standing on its own two feet in terms of finances, attendances and player development.  London have been fighting this cause for many years now, but the issues of change of ownership, finances, location and name have set back the timetable.  The London Catalan game from the Magic weekend was for me a very interesting one, and it was great to see so many youngsters from the south playing well at SL level.  It's just such a shame that the game has turned its back on expansionism through reverting to P&R.  I might be wrong, but London only just recently seem to be reaping the rewards of all that junior development in the capital and SE by them and all the other clubs down there over the last 20yrs.  And that's the thing, it takes an awfully long time to get to this position.

 

For those taking the line that London don't offer the competition anything then think again.  For a player of any sport to reach the top there has to be a structure, a ladder to climb, and there has to be a local vision of what the top looks like.  If London are not in SL then the top of that ladder is removed and will have a very negative effect on player development, and with a population of nigh on 5m that's a lot of lost opportunity.  I'm personally involved in another sport spanning abilities top to bottom and know this to be absolutely true.

 

This is that sort of damage that a return to P&R is going to have.  We could effectively be trading 10/20yrs of development London and the SE so that Fev or Leigh can play in SL for a season (please - no offence).  I cannot believe that the powers that be think that allowing London, and possibly Catalan in a season or two's time maybe, to be relegated is good for the game.

 

 

 

That is an excellent post very well reasoned out and very well written.

 

When Les Catalans were losing weekly along with London we had the nightmare scenario of these clubs being replaced by a small club in the same place as two other SL clubs, and another small club on the doorstep of Europe's biggest name RL club.

 

Stunning observation on all those decent young players at MM in BOTH the London and Catalans teams playing some good stuff yet both the clubs possibly facing the serious damage at best, or the oblivion at worst of relegation.

 

We've already dispelled the silly myth that a relegation battle can revitalise the comp, and it will be the same again next year when we have the highly loaded middle eight so called "competition".

 

What would revitalise the game as indicated is if we had decent professional teams competing out of new areas finding new players and audiences, yet that is what is most likely to be thrown away. Come on Lenegan let's have your vision?



#48 The Parksider

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 04:27 PM

I cannot believe people think Rugby League is as big as Rugby Union outside of the heartlands, you only have to look at Sports England participation figures to see how many people are playing each sport. Nearly every RL team outside of the heartlands are propped up by RU players playing off season and Playing out of RU clubs

 

They think a lot of things.....

 

Clubs can grow and grow and grow without investment

Amateur RL clubs are springing up all over the country

There's  no limit to quality juniors players out there

A rich owner who can meet the salary cap means success 

Relegation is good for clubs because they can "rebuild"

Second tier promotion battles draw big crowds

It doesn't matter if the game is concentrated in the north

 

It's all wishful thinking, and fair enough no harm in dreaming, but if the game's policies were based on these fallacies then we'd be stuffed. The sad thing is the policies for me ARE based on these things......



#49 Northern Sol

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 04:31 PM

 

It's all wishful thinking, and fair enough no harm in dreaming, but if the game's policies were based on these fallacies then we'd be stuffed. The sad thing is the policies for me ARE based on these things......

And the ironic thing is that you spent years arguing that they weren't and that the RFL knew what they were doing and so we should follow them blindly.



#50 The Parksider

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 04:37 PM

Unless you have a substantial amount of money it would be pointless for London to continue. One thing about Sports is that to be successful you need not just to have the right people on the field but the right people off it as well.and its bnot just a team that would need funding but an infrastructure to be built  London will lose all players of note from their squad unless for promotion to be realistic Championship clubs operate to the same salary cap as their Super League opponents.This will not happen.

 

The fact is the 8/8/8 will permanently fix the composition of the upper levels of the league unless a Super League club falls into financial trouble but will allow traditional clubs with average attendances last year of 2,403,1,707, 1,556 and 803 can achive their dream which despite the pounding of keyboards, really is to be able to play a series of hastily arranged local derbies at the back end of the season for the gate money. Reality and economics dictate that going any further is a bridge too far, as the former Halifax Chief Executive now titular head of the RLIF knows

 

Organic growth below this will be the organic stagnation a club like London Skolars epitomises.

 

 

More realism, more pragmatism.

 

Something about the sport made it appeal to people. I too liked it being "Northern" "Local" "Affordable" "Different" use whatever words you like to describe why northerners kept it alive for so long after Union fought back.

 

Maybe in the offices of the RFL, the Boardrooms of the clubs, and out on the terraces there is no stomach to lose these things as much as those who understand the dynamics warn that we can't stand still, we either go forwards or backwards.



#51 keighley

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:13 PM

I cannot believe people think Rugby League is as big as Rugby Union outside of the heartlands, you only have to look at Sports England participation figures to see how many people are playing each sport. Nearly every RL team outside of the heartlands are propped up by RU players playing off season and Playing out of RU clubs


I don't know if you are referring to my post but I was not suggesting RL is as big as RU outside the heartlands. I am saying that compared to the situation at the launch of Fulham and also prior to the RU ban on all things league being dropped, the growth of RL throughout the country but especially in London has been huge and the breadth of the spread of RL countrywide is a thousand percent greater than it has been for most of the history of the game.

To go off topic the same thing can be said about the spread of international RL, not to the level of RU but they have had a hundred years head start. At one time not that long ago there were only four countries playing international RL. There has been an exponential increase in that area.

#52 keighley

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:24 PM

That is an excellent post very well reasoned out and very well written.
 
When Les Catalans were losing weekly along with London we had the nightmare scenario of these clubs being replaced by a small club in the same place as two other SL clubs, and another small club on the doorstep of Europe's biggest name RL club.
 
Stunning observation on all those decent young players at MM in BOTH the London and Catalans teams playing some good stuff yet both the clubs possibly facing the serious damage at best, or the oblivion at worst of relegation.
 
We've already dispelled the silly myth that a relegation battle can revitalise the comp, and it will be the same again next year when we have the highly loaded middle eight so called "competition".
 
What would revitalise the game as indicated is if we had decent professional teams competing out of new areas finding new players and audiences, yet that is what is most likely to be thrown away. Come on Lenegan let's have your vision?


Describing London Broncos as a big club is frankly laughable. Leigh and Fev beat them on any measure you can mention. That's not to say I wish London ill, I'm a well known supporter of small underdogs.

#53 keighley

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:35 PM

They think a lot of things.....
 
Clubs can grow and grow and grow without investment
Amateur RL clubs are springing up all over the country
There's  no limit to quality juniors players out there
A rich owner who can meet the salary cap means success 
Relegation is good for clubs because they can "rebuild"
Second tier promotion battles draw big crowds
It doesn't matter if the game is concentrated in the north
 
It's all wishful thinking, and fair enough no harm in dreaming, but if the game's policies were based on these fallacies then we'd be stuffed. The sad thing is the policies for me ARE based on these things......


Then there's the wonderful notion of SL not everything it's the only thing and contracting the whole only important divine right to greatness and all resources SL to 10 is the way to preserve and grow the game. There is way more potential for the game than that. Negativity and nihilism are not the answer.

#54 zorquif

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:11 PM

How have dispelled anything about relegation battles? We haven't had one since the start of licencing. I dare say we won't have a real one until we manage a season without anyone getting docked points

#55 keighley

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:56 PM

More realism, more pragmatism.
 
Something about the sport made it appeal to people. I too liked it being "Northern" "Local" "Affordable" "Different" use whatever words you like to describe why northerners kept it alive for so long after Union fought back.
 
Maybe in the offices of the RFL, the Boardrooms of the clubs, and out on the terraces there is no stomach to lose these things as much as those who understand the dynamics warn that we can't stand still, we either go forwards or backwards.


The word I like is "better".

#56 The Parksider

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 05:52 AM

How have dispelled anything about relegation battles? We haven't had one since the start of licencing. I dare say we won't have a real one until we manage a season without anyone getting docked points

 

We didn't have one that anyone took any notice of pre licensing, apart from odd end of season match, in the odd season. We aren't going to get one in future apart from selected odd games at the end of the season when teams play off. Even then there's no guarantee as the games will be professionals.v.semi professional mis-matches. We didn't get a single crowd of any note this season for games at the lower end of the table, the fans had no interest.

 

Only rich owners got their clubs up and stayed up, not P & R, it didn't work because of the financial gap and the financial gap has been retained for the "new" version.


Edited by The Parksider, 21 May 2014 - 06:52 AM.


#57 zorquif

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 07:47 AM

You don't have relegation battles until the end of the season. And as I said, this season is somewhat muted by the docking of points. It still takes away the sense of a fair fight. We might see some good crowds at Bradford towards the end of the season if there is a sense that the great escape is on. But who's to say? There is a lot of rugby until the benefit of relegation battles may or may not be seen.



#58 The Parksider

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 08:00 AM

You don't have relegation battles until the end of the season.  We might see some good crowds at Bradford towards the end of the season if there is a sense that the great escape is on. But who's to say? There is a lot of rugby until the benefit of relegation battles may or may not be seen.

 

Well we almost agree.

 

What we have seen is crowds down by literally thousands a match at Bradford, Wakefield and London, the first problem is the loss of an audience clubs doing badly and heading for relegation suffer.

 

Then when we get to the "business end" we may not get any big relegation matches if the clubs are already sunk. History of SL relegation battles shows that.

 

If there is the odd crunch match (and again history of SL relegation battles show that only the odd game appeals) then indeed crowds can go up by two or three thousand. 

 

But that odd game or two attracting a few thousand extra speccies doesn't create the scenario KPMG painted that crowds will go up overall if you have relegation.

 

Once Bradford have gone ten home games with 2,000 less fans, they're never going to make that up even if the last three games are all crunch matches which they will not be.



#59 keighley

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 11:26 AM

We didn't have one that anyone took any notice of pre licensing, apart from odd end of season match, in the odd season. We aren't going to get one in future apart from selected odd games at the end of the season when teams play off. Even then there's no guarantee as the games will be professionals.v.semi professional mis-matches. We didn't get a single crowd of any note this season for games at the lower end of the table, the fans had no interest.

 

Only rich owners got their clubs up and stayed up, not P & R, it didn't work because of the financial gap and the financial gap has been retained for the "new" version.

 

Going up and staying up via p and r probably requires a certain level if financing which may include a rich owner. Hull KR and Huddersfield are prime examples of this.

Some of the promotion games of the past drew large attendances, 12000 for Hull v (wait for it) New Hunslet is one. Fulham v Wigan, 10,000 is another, I rather fancy Fev v Leigh will push the 4,000 barrier and Fev v Wakefield more than that. Let's wait and see.

 

The large relegation attendances will only come at the back end of the season when relegation  will depend on the result of one game a la famous Cas v Trinity game. This season it does not look likely that this will happen and London are certainties for the drop and Bradford may be a lost cause also.

 

I do agree with you about the rigged nature of the 3 x 8 promotion league. It's a fix and needs replacing with one or two up and down p an d r asap.



#60 keighley

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 11:41 AM

Well we almost agree.

 

What we have seen is crowds down by literally thousands a match at Bradford, Wakefield and London, the first problem is the loss of an audience clubs doing badly and heading for relegation suffer.

 

Then when we get to the "business end" we may not get any big relegation matches if the clubs are already sunk. History of SL relegation battles shows that.

 

If there is the odd crunch match (and again history of SL relegation battles show that only the odd game appeals) then indeed crowds can go up by two or three thousand. 

 

But that odd game or two attracting a few thousand extra speccies doesn't create the scenario KPMG painted that crowds will go up overall if you have relegation.

 

Once Bradford have gone ten home games with 2,000 less fans, they're never going to make that up even if the last three games are all crunch matches which they will not be.

 

Are you sure the poor crowds at London, Bradford and Wakefield are due to  relegation. If there was no relegation this season I think Broncos crowds would still be dire. The implode button has been pressed for a couple of seasons there.

 

The same could be said about Bradford.There has been a serious decline here for several seasons compounded by the two bankruptcies and decline in playing standards and thse lower crowds were a trend before the return of p and r was mooted and now they look doomed to relegation as well. If they had to play Wakefield at Odsal in a last game with all on the line, I would bet on a big attendance but it does not look a likely scenario at this point.

 

Wakefield have had the capacity of Belle Vue cut to 5,000. This is an obvious factor inn any reduced attendances there. this would have been the case even without relegation.

 

Once again you have your blinkered SL is everything hat on. Any loss of crowds at the bottom end of SL should be countered by bigger crowds at the top of the championship when promotion is at stake. I would think KPMG would have taken that into account in their report.






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