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#1 Havenwarrior

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 04:41 PM

Having spent the last 18 months taking pics at Whitehaven at home games behind the sticks with no problems, today I have been told by a steward in need a Permit. The only place I put these photos is on the Club Forum, or the Club/Players Twitter.

I could understand if I was selling them, but they are free to use for whoever wants them.

Anyone any advice, or been in a similar position.

HW

#2 Red Willow

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:07 PM

I'd check with the club. Heard of a similar situation at another club which was resolved easily as no commercial enterprise was included.

 

It's often that stewards see an SLR as professional kit, which isn't always the case.



#3 Padge

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:55 PM

Strictly speaking the club has the right to allow or disallow anyone from taking photographs on their premises.

 

In these days of mobille phones having the capability of taking a fairly decent photograph its becoming ridiculous to try and stop people taking photographs.

 

What you do with the photograph then becomes the issue. If you try to make money from someones image, or even building, then you may be liable to an infringement of image/copyright right.

 

Also you have to bare in mind most stewards are utter and complete arrisoles.


Edited by Padge, 18 May 2014 - 06:58 PM.


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#4 Padge

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:56 PM

Stupid editor 


Edited by Padge, 18 May 2014 - 06:58 PM.


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#5 Havenwarrior

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:18 PM

Strictly speaking the club has the right to allow or disallow anyone from taking photographs on their premises.
 
In these days of mobille phones having the capability of taking a fairly decent photograph its becoming ridiculous to try and stop people taking photographs.
 
What you do with the photograph then becomes the issue. If you try to make money from someones image, or even building, then you may be liable to an infringement of image/copyright right.
 
Also you have to bare in mind most stewards are utter and complete arrisoles.



Spoke with the Club Chief Executive after game, he said it was an RFL thing, only they can issue permits.


I use the images on the Haven Fans forum, and send to the players and clubs twitter feeds.

HW

#6 Padge

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:59 PM

Spoke with the Club Chief Executive after game, he said it was an RFL thing, only they can issue permits.


I use the images on the Haven Fans forum, and send to the players and clubs twitter feeds.

HW

 

All photographers have to be licensed by the RFL, licenses are on a graded system. Championship has one category and then SL has another. The RFL seem to not be keeping up to speed with technology. You can take a good publishable photograph with a mobile phone these days. 



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#7 Chris Taylor

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:20 PM

HW, I'm one of the two (only allowed 2) club photographers. 

 

You need to be given the right by the RFL for taking photos pitchside. There are minimum requirements for you to do so, i.e Public liability insurance.

 

If you are at the upcoming game on Sunday at Featherstone, happy to have a chat with you to help out. 

 

John Ledger is your man at the RFL.


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#8 robt

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:33 AM

HW, I'm one of the two (only allowed 2) club photographers. 

 

You need to be given the right by the RFL for taking photos pitchside. There are minimum requirements for you to do so, i.e Public liability insurance.

 

If you are at the upcoming game on Sunday at Featherstone, happy to have a chat with you to help out. 

 

John Ledger is your man at the RFL.

 

I'm the photographer at Donny (Chris has spoken to me on occasions, and I'm sure the Haven lot will have spotted me last week), and to be honest, its something I've noticed a fair bit of at most grounds around the league, theres always a few photographers in the stand (normally with mid level DSLRs) who are snapping away happily with no regard for the rules and regs.

 

I'll put these paragraphs from the current Accreditation guidelines on here 

 

 

Once again please note we are unable to offer RFL accreditation to fans websites, family members, household pets, girlfriends or that nice bloke who sometimes gives you a lift to the game. 

 

 

PHOTOGRAPHER APPLICATIONS

Photographic accreditation will be broken down into three separate categories:

 

Category 1: Photographers will be accredited to apply to attend fixtures at all Rugby League games/competitions, including Super League, Challenge Cup and Championships. Category 1 photographers will typically be staff photographers on national or regional newspaper titles, established agency/freelance photographers who have had paid for images from Super League/international competition published in recognised media outlets in 2013.

 

Category 2: Photographers will be accredited to apply to attend fixtures involving Kingstone Press Championships clubs only (including Challenge Cup games involving Championship clubs). Category 2 photographers will typically be staff photographers on local newspaper titles, freelance photographers whose images are used on a paid-for basis by trade press and local newspapers.

 

Club Photographer: Photographers will be accredited for home and away fixtures involving their respective club(s) only.

 

To qualify for consideration for Category 1 accreditation, an individual photographer must provide all of the following:

1, A certificate of valid Public Liability Insurance to a minimum of £2 million cover for 2014;
2, Proof of publication of images from Super League/international matches in a recognised media outlet during 2013 (original cutting of bylined work or copy of an invoice for paid work must be submitted);
3, Where appropriate, a letter of confirmed employment status from a Picture/Sports Editor;
4, Evidence, where appropriate that they take all reasonable steps to protect the intellectual property of their subject on online databases (eg FLICKR) by either password protecting or watermarking where applicable.

 

To qualify for consideration for Category 2 accreditation, an individual photographer must provide all of the following:

1, Certificate of valid Public Liability Insurance to a minimum of £2 million cover for 2014;
2, Proof of publication of images from Championship/Northern Rail Cup matches/other sporting imagery in a recognised media outlet during 2013 (original cutting of bylined work or copy of an invoice for paid work must be submitted);
3, Where appropriate, a letter of confirmed employment status from a Picture/Sports Editor;
4, Evidence that they take all reasonable steps to protect the intellectual property of their subject on online databases (e.g. FLICKR) by either password protecting or watermarking where applicable.

To qualify for consideration for Club Photographer accreditation, an individual photographer must provide all of the following:

1, A certificate of valid Public Liability Insurance to a minimum of £2 million cover for 2014;
2, A letter of recommendation from a senior officer of the stated club;
3, Evidence that they take all reasonable steps to protect the intellectual property of their subject on online databases (e.g. FLICKR) by either password protecting or watermarking where applicable.

 

All members of the media will be required to comply with the 2014 Terms and Conditions of Media Accreditation, a copy of which will be sent to all successful applicants.

Please note that accreditation will be given at the discretion of the RFL Communications Manager in consultation with RFL member clubs. Accreditation does not guarantee entry to any game: Matchday access still requires approval of the host club’s media manager.

 

I can understand the frustration of doing something like you've been doing, then being told that you need the Accreditation for it, but, have a word with the club, and see if they can help you out, or failing that, speak to Chris, or myself, and I'm sure we can help out in one way or the other. 


Rob Terrace - Matchday Photographer / Highlights 'editor', Doncaster RLFC.


#9 guess who

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:02 AM

Why would any one need PLI to take some pics?

#10 shrek

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 07:06 AM

Personally in your position mate, if your just taking snaps for fun, I wouldn't bother trying at Whitehaven, just go and enjoy the game and if you want to carry on snapping Rugby comps like the National Conference are full of clubs that will welcome you with open arms and you won't get any grief.

 

Even then though I'd sort yourself out with some public liability insurance if you haven't already for piece of mind its not that expensive.



#11 tim2

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:10 AM

Why would any one need PLI to take some pics?


When you are pitch side of the barrier you can easily come into contact with players and if you equipment injures one of them, you will be liable. The regulation is actually to protect the photographer as much as anything.
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#12 Errol Stock

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:54 AM

Strictly speaking the club has the right to allow or disallow anyone from taking photographs on their premises.

 

In these days of mobille phones having the capability of taking a fairly decent photograph its becoming ridiculous to try and stop people taking photographs.

 

What you do with the photograph then becomes the issue. If you try to make money from someones image, or even building, then you may be liable to an infringement of image/copyright right.

 

Also you have to bare in mind most stewards are utter and complete arrisoles.

Spot on summary for this situation - really hacks me off.

 

I invested in a Canon 100-400 lens and have used it a few times at Batley and Dewsbury without being challenged. However, I am always accutely aware that people look twice when I turn up.

I too am a hobbyist leaning towards serious about it but have no intent to publish or sell - competitions would be the only place the shot (might) turn up.

 

Its an arus of a rule and I have no doubt technology will make it barely enforcable - apart from for those of us who invest more money in the better equipment.

 

This situation equates to being singled out for a driving ban because you have an exceptional car that stands out from the crowd. If you had a car that melts into the background - thats fine?

 

I noticed at each Magic Weekend - many of the Catalan fans have DSLR's and shoot away without hindrance...

 

I just keep moving and keep trying when I feel like it. Good luck with your quest for freedom!!



#13 Havenwarrior

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 02:06 PM

HW, I'm one of the two (only allowed 2) club photographers. 

 

You need to be given the right by the RFL for taking photos pitchside. There are minimum requirements for you to do so, i.e Public liability insurance.

 

If you are at the upcoming game on Sunday at Featherstone, happy to have a chat with you to help out. 

 

John Ledger is your man at the RFL.

Well i have emailed John Ledger, see if i have any joy.

 

HW



#14 Gary Coyle

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:45 PM

Theres also players image rights to protect as well, the rules are there for a reason.

 

You are not allowed to publish images willy nilly all over the internet no matter if you are accredited or not, guys like me can only publish a specific size and it must be either password protected or watermarked (RFL rules)

 

I can host high resolution images for sale but only to the Media and high reslolution galleries must be password protected and NOT visible to Joe public, only ther Media

 

You cant sell images to anyone other than the Media

 

For a club photographers Level 3 pass you need your club to apply on your behalf

 

For Level 2 Championship level the rules are also different and for Level 1 Super League you need to be able to prove through invoices etc, etc that you have successfully sold images to the Media in the previous 12 month

 

£2,000,000 PLI is a must at all levels but at level 3 the clubs own PLI may cover you but check first.



#15 Havenwarrior

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:01 PM

Theres also players image rights to protect as well, the rules are there for a reason.
 
You are not allowed to publish images willy nilly all over the internet no matter if you are accredited or not, guys like me can only publish a specific size and it must be either password protected or watermarked (RFL rules)
 
I can host high resolution images for sale but only to the Media and high reslolution galleries must be password protected and NOT visible to Joe public, only ther Media
 
You cant sell images to anyone other than the Media
 
For a club photographers Level 3 pass you need your club to apply on your behalf
 
For Level 2 Championship level the rules are also different and for Level 1 Super League you need to be able to prove through invoices etc, etc that you have successfully sold images to the Media in the previous 12 month
 
£2,000,000 PLI is a must at all levels but at level 3 the clubs own PLI may cover you but check first.



I have no intention of making any money out of it, it's a hobby.


Hw

#16 shrek

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:08 AM

I have no intention of making any money out of it, it's a hobby.


Hw

I don't think its a question of you making money more of preventing individuals from potentially harming any revenue streams the clubs/players may wish to exploit.  That said what value you'd put on the image rights of a Championship player I've no idea.

 

If your accredited as Gary has already said your very limited in what you can do with your images and certainly who you can sell them to.  Perhaps if your throwing them up on Twitter that has drawn attention to yours.

 

Some clubs seem more keen to enforce the rules than others, I once got confronted at Rochdale texting the wife at half time as an over zealous steward thought I may have been taking a photo, quite what off I don't know!



#17 Gary Coyle

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:39 AM

I have no intention of making any money out of it, it's a hobby.


Hw

If its just a hobby then just shoot amateur stuff on Saturday afternoons, and you dont need any form of accreditation, the RFL even allow you to sell those should you so wish



#18 Gary Coyle

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 08:55 AM

The RFL had a massive clampdown on this 2 years ago because some individuals were posting very high res images online and even handing them over to a few people who were printing and framing hundreds of images mainly of Wigan, Saints, Leeds and International photos and making an absolute fortune on Ebay, they were even putting counterfeit player signatures on the photos, the photos were found to be from Getty Images and from a couple of well established pros i wont name, someone made many tens of thousands of pounds and the players made nothing.

 

The RFL even had to take action against Ebay as they were inadvertantly involved in fraudulant activity and since thwen the RFL have had no choice but to be stricter on the whole issue.



#19 guess who

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:28 AM

When you are pitch side of the barrier you can easily come into contact with players and if you equipment injures one of them, you will be liable. The regulation is actually to protect the photographer as much as anything.


Cheers for that. I have to admit that never occoured to me.

#20 Rob

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:31 AM

How could anyone ever become an accredited photographer?

 

You cannot take photos at Superleague matches unless you are accredited.

 

You cannot become accredited unless you have shown proof that you have taken photographs at Superleague matches and have had them published.

 

Sounds like a closed club.  What happens when the current photographers retire / die?






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