Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 402

Try our Fantastic 5-Issue Bundle Offer! For just £18, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:
The Play-offs Issue - pictured (out 12 Sept) – Covering the climax of the Super League & Championship seasons
The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final excitement from both sides of the world plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

London RL Depth


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#21 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,953 posts

Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:44 PM

CLS may be a necessary evil for some sides if London premier collapses but other than that I agree with everything you say.

#22 EastLondonMike

EastLondonMike
  • Coach
  • 4,184 posts

Posted 04 June 2014 - 09:31 PM

I think there seems to be a big problem across the London leagues at the moment with player buy in. I've never known so many clubs who were strong a year or so ago who are now struggling to field teams.

I do think we're really lucky at the Dockers that we have no other RL clubs nearby, in that anyone who is new to the game who lives central, east or in north London will consider us they're nearest club.. That includes people who love in north east Essex too.

The big thing about fielding a number of teams per club is, as has been mentioned, having a decent amount of volunteers and coaches involved at the club who are passionate, patient and prepared to get stuck in.

If every club had half a dozen people like that I reckon most could find a couple of teams to field.

Newham Dockers - Champions 2013. Rugby League For East London. 100% Cockney Rugby League!

Twitter: @NewhamDockersRL - Get following!

www.newhamdockers.co.uk


#23 MidlandsRugbyLeague

MidlandsRugbyLeague
  • Coach
  • 980 posts

Posted 04 June 2014 - 10:00 PM

What is the fascination with Confrence League South?

For what is an amateur competition it puts a lot of pressure on players and clubs due to the spread of the clubs.

If a London team was to join the current league the travel times (assuming from Central London) would range from 2hrs Oxford to 3 1/2 hours Sheffield with the others around the 3 hour mark. That's an average of 5 to 6 hours per game. Leaving home around 9am on a Sunday and arriving home around 8pm.

That changes a fun afternoon with your mates on a Saturday into a pretty big commitment taking up every second Sunday.

Imagine those travel times for Eastern Rhinos or Medway?

The answer has to be to split Tier 4 competition outside the heartlands. Existing CLS be for Wales, South West, Midlands and a new equivalent CLS be set up to incorporate East, London, & South East.

The winners of each comp could play each other at years end.

That has to be the focus of the London, East, & South East clubs ... When or if this will ever happen will yet to be seen.


Games are Saturday.

#24 London Drifter

London Drifter
  • Coach
  • 106 posts

Posted 04 June 2014 - 10:18 PM

Games are Saturday.


Almost makes it worse. You can't go out Friday night, & your whole Saturday and Saturday night is taken up.

If you are a good player you may as well trial for Hemel & Skolars. It's the same level of commitment, or just continue playing with your mates in and around London.

#25 bbfaz

bbfaz
  • Coach
  • 217 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:00 AM

I've been pretty consistent in my view that Conference League South is a dog's breakfast of a league.  Basucally there's not enough teams to create a proper Midlands Premier and so the group of teams who are a bit better are joined by teams who are unusually serious for their region, such as Bristol Sonics.

 

I can see Staines dropping out of the London Prem, but I don't know about HHH stepping up, as the last time I spoke to one of them the story was they have plenty of players, just no one willing to step up to run the club admin wise.  And they don't want to travel too far.   One idea, next season, maybe join together the top five clubs from the Eastern League with SW Chargers, St Albans and Eastern Rhinos and have a fourteen week season plus cup games.

 

I sound like a broken record but I said to the RFL that Staines were not suitable for the Premier, given they dropped out of the Entry League playoffs last year for spurious reasons (no money to travel to Newham!).  Staines would have been perfect to be the sixth team in Division 1.  Short away trips to Esher, Elmbridge and Chargers A, they could have fielded a young side and been reasonably competitive.

 

You're right, Hammersmith lack off-field staff and have no ground.  However, if they could find a way to do SOMETHING, they would at least be reasonably competitive and Staines can head back to the entry league to start again.  I guess the lesson is don't run before you can walk.  It would be interesting to hear from Staines on this one though.  Anybody have any contacts there?


Beckenham Bears RL - Rugby League in South East London

 


#26 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,953 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:08 AM

Conference League South is a very good league if you accept it as a midlands and south west premier. It's however no good at being a south wide league. There's only 2 midlands sides now as Northampton couldn't keep up with the pace. I'm hoping next year a Championship 1 Coventry Bears can field an A team at CLS level. Without the CLS I don't think Nottingham, Leicester, Bristol etc would be able to continue at their current level

#27 bbfaz

bbfaz
  • Coach
  • 217 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 10:29 AM

I think there seems to be a big problem across the London leagues at the moment with player buy in. I've never known so many clubs who were strong a year or so ago who are now struggling to field teams.

I do think we're really lucky at the Dockers that we have no other RL clubs nearby, in that anyone who is new to the game who lives central, east or in north London will consider us they're nearest club.. That includes people who love in north east Essex too.

The big thing about fielding a number of teams per club is, as has been mentioned, having a decent amount of volunteers and coaches involved at the club who are passionate, patient and prepared to get stuck in.

If every club had half a dozen people like that I reckon most could find a couple of teams to field.

 

Not just East London, Mike, some people south of the river are closest to you now we've moved further south and Greenwich folded.  I reckon it would probably be quicker for a lad living in Lewisham to get to West Ham via public transport than getting out to us by car.

 

Do you think it would have been different had B&D survived and if Enfield had got off the ground?

 

At Beckenham, it was our ambition to run two teams.  However, even with some double-duty, you still need 35 players for a matchday to do that, which we just can't get near with any consistency.


Beckenham Bears RL - Rugby League in South East London

 


#28 Jasper

Jasper
  • Coach
  • 336 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 10:44 AM

 I'm hoping next year a Championship 1 Coventry Bears can field an A team at CLS level.

Don't want to get too far off topic, but isn't that how it should be, any Midlands or Southern clubs joining the Championship 1 set up should have their A team playing in the Conf League South, not in a local league against fairly newish clubs and players. 



#29 bbfaz

bbfaz
  • Coach
  • 217 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:05 AM

Conference League South is a very good league if you accept it as a midlands and south west premier. It's however no good at being a south wide league. There's only 2 midlands sides now as Northampton couldn't keep up with the pace. I'm hoping next year a Championship 1 Coventry Bears can field an A team at CLS level. Without the CLS I don't think Nottingham, Leicester, Bristol etc would be able to continue at their current level

 

This is why when Darren Pugsley was putting forward his optimistic vision for the future at the Season Launch this year (which very few actually came along to), it was suggested that  a "London, South and East Superleague" was really the next natural step above the London Premier.  This would fit with the idea as laid out earlier; probably Chargers, Rhinos, Skolars A, Stags A, Cents, Crusaders, Tigers.


Beckenham Bears RL - Rugby League in South East London

 


#30 EastLondonMike

EastLondonMike
  • Coach
  • 4,184 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:23 AM

I think had B+D stuck around certainly the essex contingent would have probably gravitated there, though in all honesty we don't have that many essex based lads playing at the Dockers, but even back then we still consistently drew decent numbers of new players, though back then we didn't have the set up to keep hold of them, now we do. And we're seeing the benefits.

I don't think people take the league seriously enough, which is why some clubs drift in terms of playing staff.
 


Newham Dockers - Champions 2013. Rugby League For East London. 100% Cockney Rugby League!

Twitter: @NewhamDockersRL - Get following!

www.newhamdockers.co.uk


#31 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,953 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:30 AM

This is why when Darren Pugsley was putting forward his optimistic vision for the future at the Season Launch this year (which very few actually came along to), it was suggested that a "London, South and East Superleague" was really the next natural step above the London Premier. This would fit with the idea as laid out earlier; probably Chargers, Rhinos, Skolars A, Stags A, Cents, Crusaders, Tigers.

Medway and Southampton maybe

#32 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,953 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:32 AM

Don't want to get too far off topic, but isn't that how it should be, any Midlands or Southern clubs joining the Championship 1 set up should have their A team playing in the Conf League South, not in a local league against fairly newish clubs and players.

Depends what we want the London premier to be. It's not exactly a local league and of the 2 new clubs one shouldn't be there and the other are really good.

#33 Bob8

Bob8
  • Coach
  • 9,493 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:55 AM

Not just East London, Mike, some people south of the river are closest to you now we've moved further south and Greenwich folded.  I reckon it would probably be quicker for a lad living in Lewisham to get to West Ham via public transport than getting out to us by car.

 

Do you think it would have been different had B&D survived and if Enfield had got off the ground?

 

At Beckenham, it was our ambition to run two teams.  However, even with some double-duty, you still need 35 players for a matchday to do that, which we just can't get near with any consistency.

My thinking is perhaps ultra cautious, but you need 35 players in a squad just to get 17 men out each game.  There will be injuries, work, holidays and just not being that dedicated.  That means to manage two teams, you have to be looking at 70 players.  You will also need adminstrators to ensure things are run well enough, or both teams will be disillusioned.  If that means we have a several players having to make so with social 9's, we will be fine with that. 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#34 Bedford Roughyed

Bedford Roughyed
  • Moderator
  • 5,239 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:45 PM

My thinking is perhaps ultra cautious, but you need 35 players in a squad just to get 17 men out each game.  There will be injuries, work, holidays and just not being that dedicated.  That means to manage two teams, you have to be looking at 70 players.  You will also need adminstrators to ensure things are run well enough, or both teams will be disillusioned.  If that means we have a several players having to make so with social 9's, we will be fine with that. 

From my experience 60-70 would be about right.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#35 bowes

bowes
  • Coach
  • 10,953 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:30 PM

Slightly off topic but Northampton have gone from being unable to raise a team every week in CLS to winning by an average of 70 point margin a week in midlands premier. I wouldn't rule out them looking east

#36 bbfaz

bbfaz
  • Coach
  • 217 posts

Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:59 PM

My thinking is perhaps ultra cautious, but you need 35 players in a squad just to get 17 men out each game.  There will be injuries, work, holidays and just not being that dedicated.  That means to manage two teams, you have to be looking at 70 players.  You will also need adminstrators to ensure things are run well enough, or both teams will be disillusioned.  If that means we have a several players having to make so with social 9's, we will be fine with that. 

 

Absolutely, you need a massive squad to support two teams.  Our problem is consistency.  We have a number of players but, at best, 2/3rds will be available on any given matchday and that's like 1 1/2 squads.


Beckenham Bears RL - Rugby League in South East London

 


#37 Exiled Townie

Exiled Townie
  • Coach
  • 3,334 posts

Posted 06 June 2014 - 12:11 PM

My thinking is perhaps ultra cautious, but you need 35 players in a squad just to get 17 men out each game.

 

From my experience 60-70 would be about right.

 

Absolutely, you need a massive squad to support two teams.  Our problem is consistency.  We have a number of players but, at best, 2/3rds will be available on any given matchday and that's like 1 1/2 squads.

 

So very true.  Was talking to out coach last weekend about this, and he was saying that he has never been able to put out his strongest choice team, or for that matter, the same team, for over two seasons.  We have  about 60 on our books for this season and just had enough for the cup/merit league game this weekend.


Jamfree.gifth_jasmax001.jpglaughingstock.jpg
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." G.Orwell.
St Albans Centurions Website & St Albans Centurions Photo Site


#38 Bedford Roughyed

Bedford Roughyed
  • Moderator
  • 5,239 posts

Posted 06 June 2014 - 12:18 PM

However, having 2 teams does mean that you 'should' be able to fulfil your 1st team games.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#39 bbfaz

bbfaz
  • Coach
  • 217 posts

Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:23 PM

Not sure on the quality of the team Skolars A put out but Wests beating them 38-14 in the cup must really put the cat amongst the pigeons.  Chargers routed the Cents in the other semi-final to set up a Wests/South West London cup final.


Beckenham Bears RL - Rugby League in South East London

 


#40 Jasper

Jasper
  • Coach
  • 336 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:44 AM

Not sure on the quality of the team Skolars A put out but Wests beating them 38-14 in the cup must really put the cat amongst the pigeons.  Chargers routed the Cents in the other semi-final to set up a Wests/South West London cup final.

Maybe this helped Wests Warriors - From the London RFL site -  The core of the side has been built around Matty Ashe, a former Junior Kiwi, while Matty’s younger brother Nathan is one to watch at full-back.

Nathan came to England when he was 17 and was signed by St Helens. He spent three seasons with the club making a total of 10 Super League appearances, the last of which was against London Broncos at The Stoop last April.

 

Who said there was no depth In the London League, we have ex-superleague players in our merit league. ;) 
 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users