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Galway children mass grave


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#1 RidingPie

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:44 AM

I've been reading this article and I must admit I was unaware of this. However, it has truly made me feel sick to my stomach!

 

For those who can't be bothered reading the article the bodies of nearly 800 children, who died between 1925 and 1961 in a church run (through the state) mother and baby home for single mothers, have been found in a disused septic tank. Apparently the conditions in such places were horrendous for both mother and baby with the both being seen as needing to atone for their sins (in the mothers case being unwed and in the child's case being born).

 

Some of the Nuns who ran this hostel are surely still alive (although they would be in their 70's and 80's) so why hasn't this been investigated by the police especially since this has been known about since 1975? If we chase nazi and other war criminals all their life, and rightly so in my opinion, why does there seem a reluctance to do this in an instance where an organised religion is involved, especially when the crimes seem as heinous? Or is there some other reason for this reluctance that I'm just not seeing?

 

True, its an easy trap to fall in to, judging the past by the moral standards of today, but this was the middle of the twentieth century not the fifteenth. 

 

Anyway, I'm interested to know other peoples thoughts on this.

 

 



#2 Futtocks

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:50 AM

News to me too. Horrific.


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#3 gingerjon

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:30 PM

I've been reading this article and I must admit I was unaware of this. However, it has truly made me feel sick to my stomach!

 

For those who can't be bothered reading the article the bodies of nearly 800 children, who died between 1925 and 1961 in a church run (through the state) mother and baby home for single mothers, have been found in a disused septic tank. Apparently the conditions in such places were horrendous for both mother and baby with the both being seen as needing to atone for their sins (in the mothers case being unwed and in the child's case being born).

 

Some of the Nuns who ran this hostel are surely still alive (although they would be in their 70's and 80's) so why hasn't this been investigated by the police especially since this has been known about since 1975? If we chase nazi and other war criminals all their life, and rightly so in my opinion, why does there seem a reluctance to do this in an instance where an organised religion is involved, especially when the crimes seem as heinous? Or is there some other reason for this reluctance that I'm just not seeing?

 

True, its an easy trap to fall in to, judging the past by the moral standards of today, but this was the middle of the twentieth century not the fifteenth. 

 

Anyway, I'm interested to know other peoples thoughts on this.

 

Bloody hell.


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#4 gingerjon

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:41 PM

I'm actually stunned.

 

Presumably elsewhere in Ireland are other 'graves' that weren't discovered by two boys playing.


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#5 Tiny Tim

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:41 PM

 

"If two children were found in an unmarked grave, she observes, it would be news; what about 800?"

 

 

 

I can see no reason why this should not have a thorough police investigation and if warranted those responsible prosecuted.

 

I know it's not directly comparable but the amount of police hours spent investigating the disappearance (and probable murder of) Madeline McCann compared to the death of 800 children seem totally illogical to me. As far as I can tell they plan to say a few prayers then seal up this mass grave again and hope everyone forgets about it.

 

I appreciate according to the Christian teachings God sacrificed his son, but I don't think his intention was that christians follow suit as and when it suits them disposing of children at will. Possibly I wasn't paying attention in R.E. when that was covered....

 

Very very sad story.


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#6 Futtocks

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:43 PM

RTE news report.

 


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#7 gingerjon

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:49 PM

I can see no reason why this should not have a thorough police investigation and if warranted those responsible prosecuted.

 

I know it's not directly comparable but the amount of police hours spent investigating the disappearance (and probable murder of) Madeline McCann compared to the death of 800 children seem totally illogical to me. As far as I can tell they plan to say a few prayers then seal up this mass grave again and hope everyone forgets about it.

 

I appreciate according to the Christian teachings God sacrificed his son, but I don't think his intention was that christians follow suit as and when it suits them disposing of children at will. Possibly I wasn't paying attention in R.E. when that was covered....

 

Very very sad story.

 

796 potential murders.

 

I imagine the forces of law and order are moving quickly indeed ...


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#8 RidingPie

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:52 PM

That news video doesn't help my view of the church in all this in trying to distance itself. Surely any self respecting moral organisation would have kick off some internal or independent review especially since the specific order is still around (to make a "small" donation to the memorial fund). There must be some documentation or witnesses available.



#9 gingerjon

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:58 PM

That news video doesn't help my view of the church in all this in trying to distance itself. Surely any self respecting moral organisation would have kick off some internal or independent review especially since the specific order is still around (to make a "small" donation to the memorial fund). There must be some documentation or witnesses available.

 

It's within the living memory of most of the hierarchy of the church.

 

Still, at least if what they believe is right they're going to burn for a long, long time.


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#10 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:59 PM

We'll that really does close the case against a compassionate, loving deity.

#11 Futtocks

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:00 PM

If that mass grave stopped being used in 1961 (presumably when the home closed down), then there will certainly be people still alive who know exactly what happened inside those walls, whether they were the victims or the perpetrators. But I assume the RC church can still seal people's lips to some extent, even in the 21st century.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#12 RidingPie

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:03 PM

It's within the living memory of most of the hierarchy of the church.

 

Still, at least if what they believe is right they're going to burn for a long, long time.

 

Indeed it is but I suspect the truth my have to be dragged out of the church. Also I'm sure some would protest at the sight of elderly nuns being arrested. As I said though, personally I think justice needs to be seen to be done.

 

As to the last bit, it depends, won't they get forgiven after some time in purgatory. Personally I would like to see some justice done on this plane of existence as I don't believe in others.



#13 gingerjon

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:05 PM

Indeed it is but I suspect the truth my have to be dragged out of the church. Also I'm sure some would protest at the sight of elderly nuns being arrested. As I said though, personally I think justice needs to be seen to be done.

 

As to the last bit, it depends, won't they get forgiven after some time in purgatory. Personally I would like to see some justice done on this plane of existence as I don't believe in others.

 

Do they still believe in purgatory?  I thought a previous infallible pope had altered another infallible pope's teaching on the subject.

 

Still, if you want to see evil don't just look at the maggots who put the bodies of children as old as 9 into a septic tank look at the people who would defend them today.


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#14 RidingPie

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:14 PM

Do they still believe in purgatory?  I thought a previous infallible pope had altered another infallible pope's teaching on the subject.

 

Still, if you want to see evil don't just look at the maggots who put the bodies of children as old as 9 into a septic tank look at the people who would defend them today.

 

I don't know what is believed completely, it all seems a little odd to me. I'm happy to respect other peoples right to believe what they like. Sadly though it looks like sometimes that right can lead to situations like this. I'm sure many of the people involved felt they were doing gods work!

 

As for those who defend them today, thankfully they seem few and further between than they were in the past. The general attitude from the church seemed to be "wasn't us gov it was the previous administration!" and "best we don't look too closely at this". Yes, still nauseating!



#15 gingerjon

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:15 PM

 The general attitude from the church seemed to be "wasn't us gov it was the previous administration!" and "best we don't look too closely at this". 

 

And yet they'll claim the apostolic succession and insist morality is based on lessons of variable clarity from between 2,000 and 4,000 years ago.


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#16 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:18 PM

It's within the living memory of most of the hierarchy of the church.

Still, at least if what they believe is right they're going to burn for a long, long time.


Not if they say sorry with their last breath, they won't

#17 gingerjon

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:33 PM

Not if they say sorry with their last breath, they won't

 

They have to say sorry and mean it.  No giggling.


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#18 Phil

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:57 PM

Horrific

Up until at least the early 70s the Catholic Church held the republic in an iron grip. It was truly almost unassailable ,it would take a whole essay to explain the reasons behind this but thankfully that grip is now almost non existent particularly amongst the young.
"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#19 Futtocks

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:08 PM

Okay, I realise this link may get some of us more angry than is healthy, but read the many comments from 'Thérèse' following this article. You have to wonder sometimes...


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#20 gingerjon

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:15 PM

Okay, I realise this link may get some of us more angry than is healthy, but read the many comments from 'Thérèse' following this article. You have to wonder sometimes...

 

Protestant homes were as bad.

 

That's okay then.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012




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