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Fev make bid for Huddersfield Big 3


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#61 Konkrete

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:15 AM

Similar - wires have never been relegated, always dined at the top table.
We've been pants for 70 off a 100 seasons
Again wires brought players in year after year as the crowds increase
Gleeson, King, Monas, Won the cc then bought Atkins & Myler then won another CC and got Ratchford in. Never the chance of busting the club EVEN if Moran left.

Selective quoting. That's not the point I was making and I think you probably know it.
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#62 lionheart

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:31 AM

Fev will be full time next year. so no difference there.

Money would be one attraction (we've got plenty), the glory of taking a lowly team back to the big time might be another.

Remember when world champion Michael Schumacher "dropped down" to a Ferari team that hadn't won anything for 20 years, but had big plans? That went quite well iirc. (and i'm not suggesting fev are the ferrari of RL before anyone chimes in)

going full time would cripple fev financially you just cannot get the crowds to sustain it

#63 Railway End

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:40 AM

going full time would cripple fev financially you just cannot get the crowds to sustain it


I guess the plan is to have Feisal and his associates subsidise the club for a couple of years to get to SL. If that is achieved any club is sustainable with the benefit of Sky money.

If SL is not achieved then the club would have to go back to part-time.

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#64 lionheart

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:06 AM

If you get into super league and then start losing more than your winning will the crowds drop and the backers get board and walk away history says thats going to happen

#65 Ponterover

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:19 AM

going full time would cripple fev financially you just cannot get the crowds to sustain it

 

We think we can.  Coupled with the other money making developments that are happening at the ground, crowds of 5-7k will see us sustainable (from the little snippets I've picked up).  We think that's comfortably achieveable.

 

Of course we need financial input from our backers in the short term.  The majority of the investment so far has gone into revenue generating improvements, clearly we will need a small top up to pay full cap next season and the first few seasons in Super League.


Edited by Ponterover, 14 June 2014 - 10:21 AM.


#66 Blind side johnny

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:30 AM

We think we can.  Coupled with the other money making developments that are happening at the ground, crowds of 5-7k will see us sustainable (from the little snippets I've picked up).  We think that's comfortably achieveable.

 

Of course we need financial input from our backers in the short term.  The majority of the investment so far has gone into revenue generating improvements, clearly we will need a small top up to pay full cap next season and the first few seasons in Super League.

 

 

5-7K average comfortably achievable! This is how RL business plans always start out isn't it?


Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


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#67 RSN

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:39 PM

We think we can. Coupled with the other money making developments that are happening at the ground, crowds of 5-7k will see us sustainable (from the little snippets I've picked up). We think that's comfortably achieveable.

Of course we need financial input from our backers in the short term. The majority of the investment so far has gone into revenue generating improvements, clearly we will need a small top up to pay full cap next season and the first few seasons in Super League.


You're forecasting an increase of 120% in crowds when you're going to start losing more games? That's ambitious.

5-7k crowds and you can pay full cap and be sustainable? That's absolutely ridiculous. You need 10k crowds to pay full cap and be a sustainable SL club.

Everything doesn't add up. If Fev want to be an SL club on the current crowds and pay full cap the owners would have to pay off 750k-1m of losses each year. That's just based on Hudgell having to make up 500k a year to keep HKR going on 7k crowds.

They're being ambitious but I don't think it will work out.

#68 GIANTSTRIDES

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 01:33 PM

Think everyone will wish Fev every success if they make SL. If they do there isn't a better club eg to follow than Warrington over the last 10/12 years, I personally doubt they will have the crowds to match Wolves progress, but thats not to say they can't try. There is obviously more to it than crowds though, Wire seem to have it right in all departments .

  If it was just about crowds Bradford for eg would not be where they are at the moment, No club grasped the concept of S League better than they did and they got the people in. ( a different thread ).

 If Hudd's are anything as a guide it will be a long steady process, and if thats the way at Fev, then they will need all the money that some are claiming they have, Players like they are trying for don't come cheap, they would have to be big contracts with security to get them away from top sides. All that said ,Good luck to them. 


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#69 keighley

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:29 PM

You're forecasting an increase of 120% in crowds when you're going to start losing more games? That's ambitious.

5-7k crowds and you can pay full cap and be sustainable? That's absolutely ridiculous. You need 10k crowds to pay full cap and be a sustainable SL club.

Everything doesn't add up. If Fev want to be an SL club on the current crowds and pay full cap the owners would have to pay off 750k-1m of losses each year. That's just based on Hudgell having to make up 500k a year to keep HKR going on 7k crowds.

They're being ambitious but I don't think it will work out.

 

Most of SL doesn't get 10,000 averages so they will  be on good company.



#70 JohnM

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:49 PM

Theres no way that them three would go to fev although i do think crabtree would fit in well


Don't think so. He talks in complete sentences and has no chip on his shoulder.

#71 The Parksider

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:55 PM

You're forecasting an increase of 120% in crowds when you're going to start losing more games? That's ambitious.

5-7k crowds and you can pay full cap and be sustainable? That's absolutely ridiculous. That's just based on Hudgell having to make up 500k a year to keep HKR going on 7k crowds.
 

 

The Hudgell quote is spot on, but any rich chairman is able to buy the empty seats. As for 7,000 it's best to perhaps look at Widnes. They had 3700 they took to 6000 in SL. So on that reality most people on this topic have forecast Fev good for a 5,000 average at best.

 

As for buying players any rich chairman can ensure the club has full salary cap. I assume paying a transfer fee would be the extra a rich chairman could pay if he really wanted a player, but that player has to want to come to the club.

 

The best players will want to be in the "Super 8" competition not in second tier play off stuff and this is where there's a difference with the new set up. It creates a second tier higher up the ladder. 



#72 marklaspalmas

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:58 PM

Don't think so. He talks in complete sentences and has no chip on his shoulder.

 

Aaah. A troll. Bless.


 

A Fev Blog

 

 

 

 


#73 RSN

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:53 PM

The Hudgell quote is spot on, but any rich chairman is able to buy the empty seats. As for 7,000 it's best to perhaps look at Widnes. They had 3700 they took to 6000 in SL. So on that reality most people on this topic have forecast Fev good for a 5,000 average at best.

As for buying players any rich chairman can ensure the club has full salary cap. I assume paying a transfer fee would be the extra a rich chairman could pay if he really wanted a player, but that player has to want to come to the club.

The best players will want to be in the "Super 8" competition not in second tier play off stuff and this is where there's a difference with the new set up. It creates a second tier higher up the ladder.


But Widnes had been in SL previously and had already proven they had fans who just wouldn't watch the championship.

Where are the Fev fans going to come from?

#74 Ponterover

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:47 PM

Where are the Fev fans going to come from?

 

 

Barcelona



#75 The Parksider

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:43 PM

But Widnes had been in SL previously and had already proven they had fans who just wouldn't watch the championship.

Where are the Fev fans going to come from?

 

Places like Leeds, Hull, Wakefield, Castleford, some from Huddersfield, Wigan, St.Helens, Warrington.....

 

These will help swell the crowds at POR. There will be locals from Fev and Ponte and dormant Fev fans from around West Yorks who will go along to see Fev in SL.

 

But again if Nahaboo if rich enough and benevolent with it, the club won't need any fans.



#76 redjonn

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:45 PM

You're forecasting an increase of 120% in crowds when you're going to start losing more games? That's ambitious.

5-7k crowds and you can pay full cap and be sustainable? That's absolutely ridiculous. You need 10k crowds to pay full cap and be a sustainable SL club.

Everything doesn't add up. If Fev want to be an SL club on the current crowds and pay full cap the owners would have to pay off 750k-1m of losses each year. That's just based on Hudgell having to make up 500k a year to keep HKR going on 7k crowds.

They're being ambitious but I don't think it will work out.

 

You are probably right but for consideration:

 

I guess the main revenue stream for SL club is the Sky money, followed by commercial/hospitality - well for the top clubs it will be... then the gate revenue.  So yep important but if the first two are OK it gets you towards the Cap and size of crowd then isn't the big barrier more the gate and season ticket pricing.

 

Will be interesting to see if the likes of Fev or Leigh are promoted how they balance the ticket prices. I would imagine price will go up and then it will be interesting to see reaction from current fans against the potential of attracting new fan base that haven't a "legacy" pricing issue, e.g. away team fans use to paying the higher ticket price of SL.


Edited by redjonn, 14 June 2014 - 07:47 PM.


#77 The Parksider

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:06 PM

I guess the main revenue stream for SL club is the Sky money, followed by commercial/hospitality - well for the top clubs it will be... then the gate revenue.  So yep important but if the first two are OK it gets you towards the Cap and size of crowd then isn't the big barrier more the gate and season ticket pricing.

 

They're changing SL, clubs who don't win enough games have to drop out and go play with Championship clubs. If next year the SL table is as it is now the barrier will be Hull, HKR, Salford and Wakefield.

 

The current barrier for clubs with SL ambitions is producing their own quality players. This is something Salford and Wakefield don't do hence they struggle, as Fev will do.

 

The next barrier is finding players to be able to compete. To bid for three top Fartown players and be laughed at kind of shows there's a very big barrier in terms of players wanting to come to Fev.

 

The quality will want to go to top eight, Those who cannot get a top eight gig will be chased by Hull, HKR. Salford, Wakefield. The first three can manage full cap OK.

 

Looks to me like Fev need to be picking off Wakefield's best players, and targetting taking their place in the bottom four of the first phase of Superleague.



#78 Steve Slater

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 11:06 AM

Fev have historically produced their own players, but have struggled in this department outside of Super League. Buying their way to the top is like dancing with the devil in the eyes of many of their fans, but any other way wouldn't be viable.
John Bastian was appointed by the club to set up a top class youth system, but the goalposts were moved and it's now more important to concentrate on the first team squad, but if they ever get into SL it is hoped they will be able to restrict the big clubs from harvesting so much of their local talent.

#79 redjonn

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 01:33 PM

They're changing SL, clubs who don't win enough games have to drop out and go play with Championship clubs. If next year the SL table is as it is now the barrier will be Hull, HKR, Salford and Wakefield.

 

The current barrier for clubs with SL ambitions is producing their own quality players. This is something Salford and Wakefield don't do hence they struggle, as Fev will do.

 

The next barrier is finding players to be able to compete. To bid for three top Fartown players and be laughed at kind of shows there's a very big barrier in terms of players wanting to come to Fev.

 

The quality will want to go to top eight, Those who cannot get a top eight gig will be chased by Hull, HKR. Salford, Wakefield. The first three can manage full cap OK.

 

Looks to me like Fev need to be picking off Wakefield's best players, and targetting taking their place in the bottom four of the first phase of Superleague.

 

Hard to disagree with what you say.  For me the key is the transitional couple of years until able to have the Sky money and commercial attractiveness for long enough to enable to spend to CAP and keep/attract solid SL players.  Here is where the rich backer comes in help the transition.    Of course P&R makes it a risk but then no P&R and it can never happen and the likes of Wakefield and co carry on, able to stagnate without need of any renewal concerns.


Edited by redjonn, 15 June 2014 - 01:33 PM.


#80 The Parksider

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:38 PM

Fev have historically produced their own players, but have struggled in this department outside of Super League. Buying their way to the top is like dancing with the devil in the eyes of many of their fans, but any other way wouldn't be viable.
 if they ever get into SL it is hoped they will be able to restrict the big clubs from harvesting so much of their local talent.

 

I'm tempted to list the 1983 cup final team again Steve. But we know it was all local but Steve Quinn. I went to Elland road in 1995 only 12 years on for the Leeds.v.Rovers RL cup semi 21,500 attendance. By that time Rovers were made up of imports (Banquet, Nixon, Ropati, Rodger & Tuuta) and second hand players from around and about like Roebuck, Southernwood (Cas) Price (Wakefield) Casey, Molloy (Oldham?) Gibson (Batley) Currier (Widnes) Aston (wakey lad?) Calland (Rochdale).

 

The only Fev lad was Martin Pearson so all the home grown stuff finished years ago and contributed to Rovers steady downfall to the third tier. I've tried to have this discussion before but was shouted down.

 

There's always been a Briscoe, a Hardaker or a Burrow come along and of course the choice of a Superleague academy place against third tier RL was no contest for these lads. What any club who get into Superleague have to do is to stop their best juniors going to the bigger clubs and that was tough to do. Salford, HKR. Cas, Widnes have been clubs who have been promoted and have also been clubs whose best youngsters have been attracted away to the better end of the table.

 

I fear that when they create the "Super8" next year, those clubs will be even more attractive to the best kids outside the 8. Who will want a professional career ending up playing play off with second tier clubs whilst the big boys play for Old Trafford. 

 

I fear the changes will make it harder for Rovers to get promotion and harder to keep any decent kids (if they even have any as they don't have a top academy). But the diehards would rather failure than success by licensing.






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