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Daniel Vidot - Depressing International RL story


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38 replies to this topic

#21 EastLondonMike

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:00 PM

I do feel this whole issue is slowly coming to a head, but its so frustrating seeing these things happen so often.

Someone needs to tell Vidot he can play SOO and still represent Samoa later in the 4Nations. Though doing so might upset certain selectors when it comes to naming any future SOO squads.

 

If Papalli can sign a written form saying he wants to represent the Kiwi's, then decides he wants to play SOO and represent Australia, Vidot can play SOO and for Samoa in the same year.


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#22 boxhead

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:08 PM

Not straightforward at all - it should be a diploma course in itself! But under the rules even when qualifying for Australia Radrandra can never play Origin. As I said, if he suddenly develops into one of the World's best (which is not beyond the realms) NSW will move heaven and earth to bend the rules again - you can guarantee it.

I don't think they will be able too.

The new criteria was brought in because there was considerable backlash from the Australian fans.

I know in England it may seem like all Aussie fans want to steal the best players from around the World to play for the Roos including $BW and Slammin Sam Burgess but its a long way from the Truth.

 

Fans get tired of walkovers and expectations of always winning, they want a competitive series, even if its just between three nations.

Look at Australia's record in last years world cup, they didn't let a try in after the first game did they? Five Test without a try scored including the reigning World Champions..

 

Believe it or not, that is not what Australian fans want.



#23 Scubby

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:15 PM

I don't know.

He would think he could play for a State team if he met their criteria which would be being available to be selected for the Kangaroos and there would be no issue unless he was selected before his "quarantine" was over.

 

I really don't know, I am starting to tire of the whole International game and its lack of ambition in either hemisphere.

It seems that the two factors that really hurt the International side of the game was the switch in seasons in the North and perhaps in Australia the Super League Wars.

 

There is no doubt that Origin suddenly (and reliably) filled the void of the lack of mid-season internationals (after the seasons aligned). I still think, if the desire was there, that a Worldwide month-long window could be opened up in June for Origin to run back-to-back and England to alternate series with the Kiwis or other opposition. A Pacific and Euro Cup could also run over 3/4 weeks.

 

While the NRL clubs may moan, it would mean that no Origin players were stood down from clubs and no clubs (like Melbourne) had to field watered down squads. As you say, there seems no global will or desire to do anything without a groan and a moan. Summer tests, particularly in England against NZ every other year could draw massive crowds.

 

To administrators, International football feels like the Boxing Day buffet you have to put on for your non-preferred relatives but you are damn happy when its over and done with.


Edited by Scubby, 25 June 2014 - 01:19 PM.


#24 Copa

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:44 PM

Queenslander wants to play for queensland.

Samoa were blessed to have him when they did.

#25 guess who

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 03:19 PM

You cannot blame him. Every pro wants to play there sport at the highest level.
SoO is the highest there is in our sport.

#26 Gav Wilson

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 03:33 PM

You cannot blame him. Every pro wants to play there sport at the highest level.
SoO is the highest there is in our sport.

 

Thats subjective and your opinion which is fine.

 

I believe International Test matches are the highest level in our sport. Call me crazy if you like, but there you go.


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#27 Dave T

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 03:55 PM

The issue with treating Origin as the pinnacle is that it is pretty much as big as it will ever get. Packed grounds, high viewing figures in Oz and loads of sponsors. The only real possible growth area is sponsorship, which may make players richer but will not grow the game.

Compare that to the international game and with relatively little effort the worldwide viewing figures could smash Origins, new sponsors from different parts of the world can be attracted, plus new fans from many nations.

Origin is succesful and a great event, treating it as the pinnacle and accepting that, will harm the sport of RL immensely.

Edited by Dave T, 25 June 2014 - 03:56 PM.


#28 guess who

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 04:12 PM

Thats subjective and your opinion which is fine.

I believe International Test matches are the highest level in our sport. Call me crazy if you like, but there you go.


Gav i am the same as you. But International rugby is not the top of the sport at the moment.
And it wont be till the Aussie are getting beaten most/all of the time.

#29 Dave T

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:09 AM

Gav i am the same as you. But International rugby is not the top of the sport at the moment.
And it wont be till the Aussie are getting beaten most/all of the time.

I'm not saying that is your attitude, but the game needs to move on from that too. RU has no trouble with filling grounds where teams are not competitive, look at the way the All Blacks have never been beaten by some nations.

 

Even if the Kangaroos are not interested, there is no reason why the England v NZ battles couldn't be massive crowd pullers. Plus we have already seen that some of the lower ranked nations are crowd pullers when organised properly and promoted.



#30 westlondonfan

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:45 AM

Unlike RU, cricket and football League doesn't really have a regular international program. The World Cup and 4 Nations are now in place but there needs to be more genuinely competitive games in my view.
If I was running things I would target 5-7 countries with a view to bringing the standard of their play up. France and PNG are obvious targets for me. This is what other sports have done. All the other three sports that I have mentioned seem to have expanded significantly in the last 30 years or so.

#31 keighley

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:09 PM

Queenslander wants to play for queensland.

Samoa were blessed to have him when they did.

 

Have you never heard of dual allegiances or dual nationality. Why can't someone be a Queenslander and a Samoan at the same time. Why does playing  for a state team preclude a person from playing far his national team.?

 

This state of origin trumping nationality allegiances is pathetic and can easily and should be changed.



#32 keighley

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:12 PM

Gav i am the same as you. But International rugby is not the top of the sport at the moment.
And it wont be till the Aussie are getting beaten most/all of the time.

 

That may be so but it still doesn't justify why one can't a a Queenslander or a NSW player and also represent another country internationally.



#33 boxhead

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:29 PM

That may be so but it still doesn't justify why one can't a a Queenslander or a NSW player and also represent another country internationally.

 

Because SOO is a selection series for the Australian side.

 

That is the way it stands and like it or not, it will not change.

 

I think Australia provides way too many players to other countries in this sport to try and build up weaker teams with heritage players to the sports detriment at international level.

 

When an Australian born player wants to be considered for SOO and the country of their birth the whole set up in Australia is vilified and dragged through the ######.

 

Maybe the rules should be, once you select your Test Nation of choice is forever.

I wouldn't mind that, it would lock things down and players that believe their hearts lie with their heritage can play for that team or perhaps even move back there and spread the word about the game and mentor some youngsters.

That would help develop the Pacific Island teams rather than just stacking their squads with Australians.



#34 zorquif

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:36 PM

When an Australian born player wants to be considered for SOO and the country of their birth the whole set up in Australia is vilified and dragged through the ######.

 

Maybe the rules should be, once you select your Test Nation of choice is forever.

I wouldn't mind that, it would lock things down and players that believe their hearts lie with their heritage can play for that team or perhaps even move back there and spread the word about the game and mentor some youngsters.

That would help develop the Pacific Island teams rather than just stacking their squads with Australians.

 

I don't think anyone minds when an Australian born player wants to be considered for SoO and the country of their birth.

 

Didn't Adrian Lam play SoO?



#35 boxhead

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:39 PM

I'm not saying that is your attitude, but the game needs to move on from that too. RU has no trouble with filling grounds where teams are not competitive, look at the way the All Blacks have never been beaten by some nations.

 

Even if the Kangaroos are not interested, there is no reason why the England v NZ battles couldn't be massive crowd pullers. Plus we have already seen that some of the lower ranked nations are crowd pullers when organised properly and promoted.

 

 

Its a different Sport and a different market Dave.

The All Blacks are a draw card around the World and their own fans would give their left one to see them in action against anyone. Its almost a religion in NZ.

That is not the case in Rugby League where the best the local game has to offer are seen week in week out and the best of the best Australian players against each other in the SOO series.

 

England needs to make its mark at Test level and France needs to be brought on to make the international game start to shine.

 

England V NZ in either country would be a break even deal at best with average crowds IMO



#36 boxhead

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:48 PM

I don't think anyone minds when an Australian born player wants to be considered for SoO and the country of their birth.

 

Didn't Adrian Lam play SoO?

Yes he did, he moved to Australia aged 7.

Many players that have not been born in Australia have played SOO, they moved to Australia for a better life and as adopted Australians they qualify for all of the benefits including representing their adopted Country at any Sporting field they choose.

 

Lam was one of the unusual cases that also played for PNG, same as Tonie Carroll and Brad Thorn played for NZ.

There have been a couple of anomalies and each case has had a story to it.

 

You have to have moved to Australia before the age of 13 I think under the new rules to be eligible for SOO.


Edited by boxhead, 26 June 2014 - 01:49 PM.


#37 zorquif

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:11 PM

But did Lam not play whilst staying eligible for PNG?



#38 Scubby

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:33 PM

But did Lam not play whilst staying eligible for PNG?

 

Yes he did and it is no different from what Vidot or some others want to do. Lam was great for Queensland and great for PNG and no-one really cared. Aussies saw him as an Aussie who played for Queensland and PNG saw him as a national hero who played for PNG.

 

IIRC it was Geoff Carr (NSWRL) who started getting all sneaky and tying players up. He was also part of the ARL and big figure for the Kangaroos so it made sense for him to ensure players like Mason, Uate et al played for NSW but declared for Australia also.


Edited by Scubby, 26 June 2014 - 02:34 PM.


#39 thirteenthman

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:44 PM

I'm not saying that is your attitude, but the game needs to move on from that too. RU has no trouble with filling grounds where teams are not competitive, look at the way the All Blacks have never been beaten by some nations.

 

Even if the Kangaroos are not interested, there is no reason why the England v NZ battles couldn't be massive crowd pullers. Plus we have already seen that some of the lower ranked nations are crowd pullers when organised properly and promoted.

 

And nations like Ireland fill their own grounds because of that record, and in NZ they fill the ground because its their national sport. In Dublin, the ground would be packed with people hoping to see the Irish finally win. It's the same as how despite the fact we always contrive to lose test series or World Cup games against them, and have done for over 40 years, Eng v Aus is probably the only guaranteed international sell out we have in this country. The interest in the Origin series in NSW has probably risen on the back of their poor record over recent times. 

 

Your point about games against lower ranked teams being properly organised and promoted is an excellent one. The problem is, the RFL seem reluctant to organise any internationals for England that don't involve Australia or New Zealand.