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Culture, image and Rugby League


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#141 D Collins

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:03 PM

I think you are being fairly reasonable here and not coming across as a RL basher but you are seriously doing RL a disservice. I grew up as a football fan in the 70's and we had players like Pele (just about), Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Best (just about) etc etc. We would go out and try to copy them as you say. They were brilliant players and that 1974 WC still is up there in my memory. .

But I have seen pieces of skill on the RL field that are equally breathtaking and skillful, just different. Just because some people see it as just blokes bashing into each other, doesn't mean they are right.

Oh I recognise that collision based activities have their admirers. What I was getting at was running into another person doesn't generate anywhere close that a moment of genius would. If either Rugby code had more moments of skill that would generate more interest and in turn would get more folk interested.

Regards breathtaking skill, its a common occurrence on a football pitch and you only need to search on YouTube to see a plethora of skill based vids on footballers. They are a dime a dozen. As I said the one rare moment of skill in Rugby from O'Driscoll got over a million hits.

Edited by D Collins, 17 July 2014 - 04:05 PM.


#142 Johnoco

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:46 PM

Oh I recognise that collision based activities have their admirers. What I was getting at was running into another person doesn't generate anywhere close that a moment of genius would. If either Rugby code had more moments of skill that would generate more interest and in turn would get more folk interested.

Regards breathtaking skill, its a common occurrence on a football pitch and you only need to search on YouTube to see a plethora of skill based vids on footballers. They are a dime a dozen. As I said the one rare moment of skill in Rugby from O'Driscoll got over a million hits.

But given the sheer number of football games that occur, the moments of genuine breathtaking skill is pretty low I reckon.
As I said, I have seen moves on the RL pitch that have genuinely had me scratching my head as to how they did it....a bit like when Cruyff did that trick of sidestepping/backpassing that he did in the 74 WC.

Equally I saw some brilliant goals when Bradford City were down in the dumps in the 70's. Different skills but skills all the same.

#143 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:02 PM

So how's things with the culture and image of rugby league
Feck soccer
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#144 keighley

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 02:46 AM

Nah...the prime requirement in football is skill. It requires more talent with using your feet being a lot harder than the easier task of using your hands. Both league and union it's about bulk, and ball carrying. Using your feet is a small aspect of the game. AFL is derided as hoofball..aimlessly kicking the ball up the field. They look hopeless in International rules when the ball is on the ground and they have to use their feet.

Skills pay the bills...and "the beautiful game" garners most attention because of it. Skill is what leaves folk open mouthed and attracts most interest..this is why when such moments of genius occur and are uploaded they get millions of views...and with football it's a regular occurance. A rare moment of skill in Rugby was a dummy pass by O'Driscoll which got over a million hits on YouTube...imagine if Rugby had endless moments such as this it would become a major sport (either code). Running into people, while having some admirers, doesn't leave you open mouthed.

 

A game that cannot find a winner in many top level competitions and has to resort fairground lottery shootouts to find a winner is seriously lacking in something.



#145 JohnM

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 05:38 AM

Or rather...it has everything!

#146 davidhubball

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 09:39 AM

Good point about taking a leaf out of how they changed the image of snooker albeit it took about 20-30 years for fans to realise that image of the game has changed.

 

One thing that would help the game is if fans were reminded consistantly that its a family game and educated/re-educated in how to cheer their own teams. This might help the fans to express their emotions, have a great time and shout less abuse out. In the end the game will lose if its not nipped in bud - I will definitely not take my child to a game where theres swearing and what-not being shouted all over.


Edited by davidhubball, 18 July 2014 - 09:39 AM.


#147 boxhead

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 10:12 AM

Good point about taking a leaf out of how they changed the image of snooker albeit it took about 20-30 years for fans to realise that image of the game has changed.

 

One thing that would help the game is if fans were reminded consistantly that its a family game and educated/re-educated in how to cheer their own teams. This might help the fans to express their emotions, have a great time and shout less abuse out. In the end the game will lose if its not nipped in bud - I will definitely not take my child to a game where theres swearing and what-not being shouted all over.

You must not attend games then.

In past threads I have said something similar about swearing and not wanting my young kids to be around that.

I was shouted down as a fool living under a rock where young kids already know these words and should have no problem listening to the F&C's yelled from the fans around them.

 

I think it was a harden up and grow a pair message that was sent to me.

 

I am happy with how I feel about that sort of rubbish and what I want my kids to be around.

;)



#148 davidhubball

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 10:23 AM

Times have changed now. With more new kids and families coming into the game, this kind of behaviour will destroy the game, affects the players (I don't know how Kevin Sinfield will be able to look in the mirror this morning) and deter parents from taking the kids to matches.



#149 C H Calthrop

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 11:19 AM

Times have changed now. With more new kids and families coming into the game, this kind of behaviour will destroy the game, affects the players (I don't know how Kevin Sinfield will be able to look in the mirror this morning) and deter parents from taking the kids to matches.

No just the amount of political correctness that enters the discussion has changed. And when I say political correctness I mean dishonesty. RL is a big boys game. It is not made for children however it is marketed.  90's RL didn't seem to suffer from a lack of young interest nor deterred parents And the reality is aside from media talking heads no one honestly thinks landing one destroys anything.



#150 JohnM

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 11:47 AM

90s RL is hardly a good example as it was dying on its feet.

 

If you want to watch a game where "landing one"  is an integral part,  try boxing or union.  I certainly don't pay to watch rugby to experience a bunch of half-drunk oafs  and their inane chants about self-abuse, the refs ability and ancestry 



#151 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 11:49 AM

No just the amount of political correctness that enters the discussion has changed. And when I say political correctness I mean dishonesty. RL is a big boys game. It is not made for children however it is marketed. 90's RL didn't seem to suffer from a lack of young interest nor deterred parents And the reality is aside from media talking heads no one honestly thinks landing one destroys anything.

How do you know that  no one honestly believes that 'landing one destroys anything'?

If it isn't made for children where will the players come from? If it's a 'big boys game' where does that leave girls and women?


Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 18 July 2014 - 12:24 PM.

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#152 gingerjon

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:20 PM

90's RL didn't seem to suffer from a lack of young interest 

 

It did.

 

That was the problem.


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#153 C H Calthrop

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:38 PM

90s RL is hardly a good example as it was dying on its feet.

 

If you want to watch a game where "landing one"  is an integral part,  try boxing or union.  I certainly don't pay to watch rugby to experience a bunch of half-drunk oafs  and their inane chants about self-abuse, the refs ability and ancestry 

Nothing you just said is remotely relevant. 



#154 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:40 PM

Nothing you just said is remotely relevant. 

see title of thread


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#155 JohnM

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:43 PM

Nothing you just said is remotely relevant. 

 

Moderator now, are we?   :tongue:



#156 C H Calthrop

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:59 PM

How do you know that  no one honestly believes that 'landing one destroys anything'?

If it isn't made for children where will the players come from? If it's a 'big boys game' where does that leave girls and women?

Prove it. Where is your data that correlates acts such as Sinfields with the destruction of any aspect of the game. Justify the honesty of the belief by showing there is some correlation. Lets talk of facts not beliefs.

No the game of RL is not made for children. Its history and content testify to that. Perhaps you'd like to tell me which educational establishment the game originated from and any sporting ethos laid in it that was specifically for children.

Perhaps the women and girls want to be involved in a mans game rather than netball. 

The reality is that is is a big boys game that can be played by children not a childrens game played by men. We should not adjust the understanding highest level of professional male contact sport to accommodate sensitivities toward children. 



#157 C H Calthrop

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:00 PM

Moderator now, are we?   :tongue:

An honest appreciation of the content of your comment as a response to the content of my own!



#158 davidhubball

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:01 PM

To C H Calthrop, when I was a kid you were very fortunate if you got to play any Rugby League as there not many local clubs to mention (like there are today) and there was not a team at school to join (although they did Rugby Union in small doses).

 

Things have changed for example. Another example of that is ... In the 1970s no men I knew would got to a disco and have a dance because you had to act like a hard-nut and just stand at the side with a cigarette in your hand. Nowadays, it perfectly acceptable for lads to have a dance and one of the best ways to have fun. In fact, if you don't dance then you'll be outcast and not be able to fit in with the social crowd.

 

Its a different world socially now - the hard-nuts are all dying out along with the cave-men. Rugby is evolving too to attract a different social class and needs to be able to accomodate everyone as much as possible to enable the game to keep growing. What doesn't grow will shrink and you can forget about there being a Carnegie Stadium or coverage on Sky Sports etc....


Edited by davidhubball, 18 July 2014 - 01:09 PM.


#159 C H Calthrop

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:06 PM

see title of thread

Show me where an act ,in full blooded, full contact sport such as Sinfields destroys anything. Adult audiences understand the nature of the game and should explain the difference between the SL and playing for a youth club or school to any children the see as requiring saving from the influence of Sinfield being sent off.



#160 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 01:25 PM

Prove it. Where is your data that correlates acts such as Sinfields with the destruction of any aspect of the game. Justify the honesty of the belief by showing there is some correlation. Lets talk of facts not beliefs.

No the game of RL is not made for children. Its history and content testify to that. Perhaps you'd like to tell me which educational establishment the game originated from and any sporting ethos laid in it that was specifically for children.

Perhaps the women and girls want to be involved in a mans game rather than netball. 

The reality is that is is a big boys game that can be played by children not a childrens game played by men. We should not adjust the understanding highest level of professional male contact sport to accommodate sensitivities toward children. 

I don't have to prove anything. It's you that has to do that.

You said that 'nobody sincerely believed…' how do you know this?

Rugby League is played and enjoyed by all sorts of people. people are 'chidden' until they are 18. Women also play the game.

The game originated in English Public schools, and gradually evolved.


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