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Dr K rips into Mcmanus


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#301 scotchy

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:07 PM

You won't get me disagreeing that we have problems. You will get me disagreeing that a strong league 10 thousand miles away is a massive issue for us (apart from the fact it means the Aussies aren't that serious about Internationals - that I will agree with!).

 

its not that there is a league 10k miles away that is strong which is the problem. It is that compared to them we are and look second rate.
 



#302 Saintslass

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:18 PM

its not that there is a league 10k miles away that is strong which is the problem. It is that compared to them we are and look second rate.
 

I disagree.  I don't think we look or are second rate when compared to the NRL.

 

However, the real problem is that many fans (and pundits) continue to compare our competition with the NRL, usually negatively.  If only fans (and pundits) would stop doing that maybe we - as in the people who already enjoy the game here - would come across as more confident and in turn would make the sport here more attractive to those who have yet to be persuaded.



#303 GeordieSaint

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:40 PM

We are not competing with the NRL.

 

We are competing against the NRL in terms of retaining playing talent. England's 3 best players are in the NRL and half of the rest of the team. That is a lot of quality to lose...

 

Dr Koukash is indeed investing in the youth development.  The write up for Salford indicates that as it states the change in attitude from the top of the club.


Of course he is and it is clear that is happening with the RFL commenting in the report; St Toppy chooses to ignore that as he's got an issue with Koukash. Retain that man in the sport and he'll make Salford into a very strong club.

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#304 Red Willow

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 07:23 PM

Any one who resorts to petty name calling is already undermining their argument.

 

Expecting anyone regardless of their wealth to construct an academy, feeder clubs and a service area within 12 months of taking over a basket case of a club is epecting a little too much I think.

 

In 5 years Salford need to be regularly bringing through more of their own players. This season alone we have had Fages, Evalds, Walne, Walne, Walton playing but of course Salford don't produce any talent.



#305 Dave T

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:58 PM



We are competing against the NRL in terms of retaining playing talent. England's 3 best players are in the NRL and half of the rest of the team. That is a lot of quality to lose...


Of course he is and it is clear that is happening with the RFL commenting in the report; St Toppy chooses to ignore that as he's got an issue with Koukash. Retain that man in the sport and he'll make Salford into a very strong club.

thats a slightly different point though mate. In terms of attracting fans we arent targeting the same market.

I keep hearing how bad SL is, and I keep seeing great RL every week, including one just finished.

#306 The Parksider

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 07:49 AM

It is a great sport, and plenty of people do care about the guff around the edges, thats why they dont watch it, and plenty of people do care about the fact we are 2nd best in terms of player quality, thats why they dont watch it.

 

We have a problem generating new supporters, but anyone pointing out that or low fanbase and lack of new supporters might be down to the product, its image and its environment is just complaining.

 

Im a big fan of the game, i think the game itself is brilliant and i think we have a whole heap of potential in this country. I'm not negative about our game, im genuinely excited about it. But i want it to be the best it can be. I think we can be so much more than we are right now but we wont ever get there by simply pretending these problems arent problems. They are and we are good enough to overcome them but we do need to address them.

 

Just knowing that there is a league in Australia and it is better than ours is enough to make it more difficult to sell ours. Because knowing the Australian league is better means knowing ours is worse. And our effort becomes selling a product to people who think we are inferior.

 

As I said in a previous post to solve a problem you have to properly define it. Do you have any real evidence that Superleague's real problem is that it is second best to NRL, and that it is an image problem?.

For image problems check out soccer's overpaid cheats, or upper class twits rolling around in the mud in winter, before barbecues and berbours.

 

I can't see that problem. All the half interested floating fans I have known and often taken to a game over 40 years have no interest in what's happening in Australia. These lads like what they see, but in the main don't stick because it's not a game they have an affinity with, they played the all engulfing soccer at school

and the clubs I took them to they also have no affinity with but they all know Leeds United.

 

The real problem is to me clear. Soccer is shoved down their throats and even if they prefer Rugby at many schools they can't play league. History has pushed us into a region and in that region we get squeezed further. That's much more the problem not "Image" all my guests respected our game, one said he preferred Leeds Carnegie.

 

As for an inability to "sell it" we have just "sold it" to SKY again for a record £200,000,000, and we have sold it to a large TV audience too. I quoted you the main markets for the game Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Hull, Bradford, South France and Calder. In 1996 64,000 fans on average watched Rugby league in these areas. Today up to 113,000 fans watch Rugby League in these areas.

 

We have tried expansion and as we don't have people with the same affinity to RL outside the north - a problem even evidenced with many of my northern friends as above - then any solution remains a mega £Million one and we do not have the money.

 

So with respect we are left with creating a talking shop on image, or defining the real problem which for me is that we can see what works and what brings in the fans. Big well resourced SL clubs. We need to grow more of them  and we are not doing that. The self interested Leeds, Wigans and Saints prefer to raid the Hulls and Calders for their players, they prefer to preside over rules that stifle growth and investment in Salford/manchester, they block growth in France, manipulate their puppet RFL leader, and they seize on any difficulty at their colleagues businesses by backing points deductions, taking their SKY money and raiding their playing rosters.

 

If you want the real problem it is the self destruction of the dream league of well spread out big SL clubs currently being reduced down into an 8 club rump. But guess what, the so called "great businessmen" at these clubs have now made themselves bigger fish in a smaller pond whilst using the small clubs thirst for P & R to engineer that. That's the problem.



#307 Bob8

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:12 AM

For the wider British public, the NRL does not matter.  I imagine if you ask most British people what the big sports are in Australia, they will come up with rugby union, cricket and aussie rules.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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#308 Viking Warrior

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 09:47 AM

 

We are competing against the NRL in terms of retaining playing talent. England's 3 best players are in the NRL and half of the rest of the team. That is a lot of quality to lose...

 
Of course he is and it is clear that is happening with the RFL commenting in the report; St Toppy chooses to ignore that as he's got an issue with Koukash. Retain that man in the sport and he'll make Salford into a very strong club.

 

 

i didn't know ryan hall had left leeds lol


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#309 zorquif

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 10:17 AM

As I said in a previous post to solve a problem you have to properly define it. Do you have any real evidence that Superleague's real problem is that it is second best to NRL, and that it is an image problem?.

For image problems check out soccer's overpaid cheats, or upper class twits rolling around in the mud in winter, before barbecues and berbours.

 

 

Now now Parky - you are the last person who should be calling for 'real evidence' to prove anything!



#310 The Parksider

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 11:04 AM

Now now Parky - you are the last person who should be calling for 'real evidence' to prove anything!

 

I'll take that in the fun spirit it may be intended, unless there's a hidden motive to be malicious. Don't forget you never offer any evidence or real opinion you just ask questions, and  you never reveal whether you have a particular club axe to grind?



#311 zorquif

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 11:57 AM

No malicious intent - just having the craic my man! Although... why would one need evidence for a question? Do you think I have a particular club axe to grind - have a guess!



#312 Johnoco

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 05:42 AM

Our game is the nice guy with messy hair, jogging bottoms and a cheap t-shirt with a couple of stains on it who wont bother getting a haircut cos his mum will cut it for him, isnt going to spend money on a new suit cos its too expensive and thinks a nice aftershave is unnecessary, stood at the bar wondering why girls wont talk to him.



You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL.

#313 Bob8

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 06:44 AM

You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL.

I think I will add that to my signature too! :D


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

”I am all for expansion but not to start and string the teams all over the place” – stewpot01 – 11 July 2014

"2013 is on course to be one of the most disastrous in its history." - Creditwhereitsdews - 2nd January 2013


#314 redjonn

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 09:44 AM

For the wider British public, the NRL does not matter.  I imagine if you ask most British people what the big sports are in Australia, they will come up with rugby union, cricket and aussie rules.

 

Yep agree with that and to add and be honest I don't give one iota about NRL except from the perspective of losing players to it.

 

Maybe I'm not a normal RL fan but I never watch, read about, take an interest in what is happening over there game wise - I just don't give it any thought except when I see it mentioned here or in other forums or papers and then I just skip over it..

 

Mind you I take an interest in international rugby but never the club scene in Aussie land.  I guess I'm in a minority.



#315 The Parksider

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:07 AM

Yep agree with that and to add and be honest I don't give one iota about NRL except from the perspective of losing players to it.

 

Maybe I'm not a normal RL fan but I never watch, read about, take an interest in what is happening over there game wise - I just don't give it any thought except when I see it mentioned here or in other forums or papers and then I just skip over it..

 

Mind you I take an interest in international rugby but never the club scene in Aussie land.  I guess I'm in a minority.

 

Well you could be a minority on here Red, but I doubt it. I very much doubt you are across the M62.

 

By definition people on here who are avid fans and lap up Rugby league will look at the NRL, but the forum is full of traditionalists who look no further than the M62, and that's no sleight. Like you I take no notice of NRL and never even watch SOO. 



#316 Dave T

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:58 AM

Well you could be a minority on here Red, but I doubt it. I very much doubt you are across the M62.

 

By definition people on here who are avid fans and lap up Rugby league will look at the NRL, but the forum is full of traditionalists who look no further than the M62, and that's no sleight. Like you I take no notice of NRL and never even watch SOO. 

I don't think that's true. I don't think it is anything to do with being a traditionalist, it's probably just more due to the fact that there is plenty going on in our game to keep the average fan more than occupied. As a hobby it can be time-consuming.

 

If you ask the average football fan for the Bundesliga results from the weekend they wouldn't know. Naturally foreign football has much more visibility over here so it may appear that there is plenty of interest, but in reality it is a small percentage of fans interested.

 

I subscribe to Premier and watch some NRL mainly to keep an eye on Tomkins etc. but tbh without a vested interest I find it difficult to get too excited.



#317 The Parksider

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 06:49 PM

I don't think that's true.

 

It may well not be Dave....






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